Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3105
|
|
The Government has issued a decree to local Councils to provide more caravan pitches for gypsies!! This means that the tax payer will end up having to pay for caravans sites for these people and all of the facilities that go with it!!
I don't think it's fair that we should me made to pay for caravan sites for these people. Why can't they pay for their own sites? They've chosen an alternative lifestyle, so why should we have to pay for it? I thought they were supposed to be 'travellers' anyway!
What do you think?
--------------------
|
Loo
member
Reged: 09/01/2008
Posts: 2355
|
|
They are paying taxes through the VAT system, in shops and petrol stations.
Loo
--------------------
...as in Looby Loo
This is me, with Andy Pandy and Teddy.
|
Glitterqueen
member
Reged: 11/01/2008
Posts: 3118
Loc: Essex
|
|
I thought local councils had to do this already.
--------------------
|
annemari
member
Reged: 07/03/2008
Posts: 3102
Loc: Gloucestershire.
|
|
I quite agree with you Jane,in as much as it doen't matter who you are,if you have chosen a particular lifestyle,then don't expect others to pick up the 'tab'
However,there is a difference between Gypsies and Travellers. As in the norm,Gypsies will find an employment to suit themselves and their needs,i.e.working on the land,labouring for farmers or the such like etc whereas Travellers take their work around with them,as in the fairgrounds owners/workers. Travellers do have to pay for what they use plus have Certificates for the use of the ground they are on and are also stringently monitored by the Health and Safety Department,all of which they have to pay for. It is for this reason that some of the prices that are charged for rides etc seem extremely high.
--------------------
Annemari xx
 The Three Musketeers were together again at Cardiff. Summer, ChattyCathy and my 'Mum' Auntie Annemari"
|
Glitterqueen
member
Reged: 11/01/2008
Posts: 3118
Loc: Essex
|
|
Quote:
They are paying taxes through the VAT system, in shops and petrol stations.
Loo
If that was the only way we paid then I would be very happy. What about education, health, and other public services?
--------------------
|
chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 5916
Loc: runcorn
|
|
Hmmm, had some 'travellers' park round the corner at our works in Widnes. One of the firms opposite them's night men refused to come in because he was too scared. A firm that does some sub-contrating for me were opposite them and had trailer lights stolen as the drivers got out to open the gates, along with said'travellers' trying to get the drivers to sell them just about anything. The place was an absolute disgrace - it's their choice to live a mobile lifestyle, so don't tell me that they don't have facilities. The police mostly wouldn't come out. They may pay VAT on products, but I'd be very interested to know what tax they pay in terms of 'council tax' as they benefit from the same services in terms of lighting, fire brigade. I suspect that a thorough inland revenue investigation would demonstrate distinct discrepancies. NIC payments for the hospital treatments they receive. I'm sure capital Gains Tax is regularly paid as well.
I usually try to find something nice to say about people but these lot intimidate, profit from others hard decent labour, use violence and then moan about being racially abused. Tough. Loathe them.
--------------------
I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
|
Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3105
|
|
Good morning ladies, I believe that those who are working do pay taxes. Even so, I don’t think it is a good use of public funds to subsidise these people's lifestyle when their campsites create mess and foster petty crime.
As I understand it there are going to be more than 40 new and refurbished Gypsy and Traveller sites across England under a new £21m scheme!! I think it's the governments way of getting round the housing shortage!
Not in my back yard thank you! 
--------------------
|
Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
|
|
I have to admit that there are odd gypsy encampments which leave a lot to be desired: there are, however, many that are not and are well run and encompass decent folk.
Seem to remember that someone who should be nameless sent gypsies to concentration camps in the 1930s.
My daughter teaches in a school in Cambridgeshire which has a fairly strong contingent of traveller's children: for the most part they are sweet kids. The odd bad apple, but that happens in all walks of society.
Sorry Jane, but I really am not a great fan of nimbyism: "these" people (along with immigrants) have to go somewhere - at least they are looking after themselves rather than taking up social housing. Most are not eligible for benefits and, as Loo has said, they do pay indirect taxes.
|
bluebella
member
Reged: 29/05/2008
Posts: 796
Loc: Essex
|
|
Mollymandy,
I know what you mean about "not in my backyard" but trust me, the ones near us in Essex - you would NOT want them living near you.
I know there are a lot that get on with their lives and are no trouble to anyone, there was a camp like that where I used to live and you wouldn't have even known they were there.
But the ones I am talking about is the biggest illegal camp in the UK. It has cost us millions for the council to get them moved on, but each time they use their legal aid and the eviction gets postponed.
The poor people that live near them are in despair. I could go on but I won't and what really bothers me is that some while ago they bought a field very close to me. It is greenbelt land and they are not allowed to build on it, but that didn't stop them setting up the ilegal camp they're on now.
Bluebella
|
Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
|
|
Bluebella - I really do sympathise as daughter lives near Cottenham in Cambridgeshire which also has a similar problem to those near Witham etc in Essex.
However, both of these sites are illegal ones where travellers have either bought the land themselves and illegally developed it or just squatted.
Perhaps if the Government provide well regulated and more suitably sited sites (sorry), these big, no go area, sites would not proliferate.
It was more the tone in which the question was posed which grated : as though "these" people were a sub-species. 
Edited by Mollymandy (06/01/2009 12:54)
|
Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3105
|
|
Mollymandy, I'm sure gypsies are 'normal' people just as we are. I don't necessarily have issues with gypsies as people, it is the government policy concerning the forced sale of land that I have particular issue with. The Government can force the sale of land at reduced rates. This means that land owners or people with big gardens could be faced with the compulsory purchase of their land at a knock down price!! Yes, a knock down price! The government are allowed to do this! 
Do you have a large garden MollyMandy 
--------------------
|
Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
|
|
Nope have an average garden, and also don't have a problem with travellers in this part of ~Shropshire.
I did, however, move from Cambridgeshire where I did have a few acres.
If the control of site location were given to local Government I am pretty sure they would be a little more specific in their siting and hardly likely to force any middle class homeowner to sell bits of their back gardens.
|
bluebella
member
Reged: 29/05/2008
Posts: 796
Loc: Essex
|
|
Mollymandy - yes it is a problem all over the UK.
Essex council have been told to give them more sites but we already have the most in the UK - and where do they expect them to find this land?
It's funny that John Prescot was all for giving them more sites, and then when some camped near him, they were removed sharpish for "security" reasons.
Bluebella
|
issi
member
Reged: 30/09/2007
Posts: 3733
Loc: London
|
|
If the council sets up these camps then they should be made to live, anonymously, next to them at least for a month or two after they are up and running. There is nothing like first-hand experience to clear up any misunderstandings.
|
Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
|
|
I can remember that when one or two new age families started to move on some land near to us in Suffolk, that the local farmer sprayed the field with slurry which achieved the necessary effect.
There were a family of travellers (or gypsies) on the roadside near here before Christmas (for about a month): when they left (without being moved forcibly), there was not a speck of rubbish left anywhere.
As with all minority groups, it is always easy to generalise. There is good and bad in all and I am sorry to get into rant mood, but truly loathe over generalisations and prejudice.
|
chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 5916
Loc: runcorn
|
|
As i said I've had one near Widnes, which was just horrific and a 3 day settlement 200 yards down the road from where i work in Salford. Both of them were left in a filthy condition and the one in Widnes, they were very unpleasant people.
maybe there are some that leave the place nice and are very friendly and don't intimidate. But I've not encountered any, so i draw on my first-hand experience.
--------------------
I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
|
cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 5982
Loc: On top of the world!!
|
|
Quote:
there was not a speck of rubbish left anywhere.
Here on the south coast we have a beautiful area overlooking the sea, it is public land, used by walkers, picnickers etc. It is also regualrly used by travellers who intimidate and vitually cause the area to be out of use for anyone else. They aslo trawl the streets knocking on doors and trying to 'encourage' you to have your drive blockpaved or your roof redone. I've had them knock on my door and they do not like taking no thank you for an answer. When eventually forcibly moved on they always and without fail, leave the area in a truly disgusting state. We see council workers dressed in all their protective gear having to go in and clean the area before the public can be allowed back onto the land.
--------------------
|
Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3105
|
|
Sorry ladies, I've just noticed a typo above. The Department of Communities and Local Government has set regional planners the target of coming up with sites for an extra 4,000 pitches!! (not 40 as stated above!!)
Issi, what a good idea! Perhaps Gordon Brown should try this idea out first! 
Bluebella, yes funny that JP didn't want them in his back yard isn't it?
MollyMandy, this isn't about generalisations and prejudice!! It's about hardworking, law abiding people being forced to sell their land at knock down prices!! As for a 'minority group' don't forget that this is a lifestyle that they have chosen, it has NOT been forced upon them!!
--------------------
|
Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
|
|
But don't you get these same sort of "no go" areas and filthy unkept properties, streets, etc. on some of the worst sink estates? These nasty people are also benefitting from all your hardworking, law abiding, people's taxes too.
I give up - but perhaps we just have nicer gypsies in Shropshire.
Edited by Mollymandy (06/01/2009 13:23)
|
cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 5982
Loc: On top of the world!!
|
|
That's very provocative mollymandy!
Do you want me to say well, I don't live on a sink estate so I don't care about the state of them?
I don't see that there is any connection between a sink estate and a local beauty spot.
--------------------
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
