Ziggy1
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Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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hi there everyone....i need some advice!! OH and are have been having some problems, and he says he feels like we have grown apart and are more like friends! We are currently trying to stay together...i have given him chances to leave, even packed his stuff, and he's still here, so i have to believe he wants to stay!!
We have been getting on better the last week, and i know that it isnt' going to happen overnight, but I could really do with some suggestions of things to do that can make him realise what we have is worth fighting for!!
I don't want obvious stuff that piles the pressure on, like "go out for dinner together", i want know if its best for us to spend MORE time together, or LESS time together!? should i be the perfect wife? or should i let him do his own stuff!!!
at the moment i'm waivering between happy and depressed!!!  and i don't want to keep having the conversation with him!!!
i'm constantly trying to pretend that everything is alright, especially in front of the children and our friends! and its really hard, and draining!!
Any advice will be gratefully received ....
thanks
ziggy
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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chilla
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Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6190
Loc: runcorn
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More time or less time, be the perfect wife or leave him be? Well firstly what works for one person doesn't work for another and secondly, be the perfect wife....is that what he fell for in the first place? Probably not that interested in your ironing abilities and beside the obvious, he fell for a carefree girl that liked the Rolling Stones/ Siousxsie and the Banshees, whatever...... But tht doesn't mean to say you should be anything but what you are. keeping up a facade is impossible - remember how draining it can be when you have difficult friends or relatives to the house and after you kick your shoes off and sigh? it'll be the same feeling if you try to be something that really you aren't.
I did once read that shared experiences are what keeps people together, so you can perhaps buy a new photo album and put some old photos away one evening and it's an easy way to say ' Do you remember this, that,?' and share the reminiscing. Or create some shared things, doesn't have to be a meal, try a food fair/farmers market (my O/H will do a lot for some tasty cheese  ), go and catch the Duran Duran revival tour.
You can't really push it and he has to believe it as well.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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Ziggy1
member
Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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Hi Chilla! i know what you are saying...the trouble is, he's never really been a "do something" kind of guy, and i feel like if i don't do anything, then we'll live like this forever....in limbo!! And i said to him this morning, i would rather he walked out and i was able to get on with my life, than dragging out this half life that we are leading at the moment, and i've said that dozens of times, and he's still here, and still half hearted!! We have 2 small children and I don't wnat to do anything like leave him without making sure that that is the right thing to do, so that I can justify it to my children!
I'm just completely lost, and clinging on to the remainder of my marriage!! The plus side was he has opened up and talked to his brother about it, and his brother said to do whatever it takes even if that means counselling!!! I just want it to go back to normal, even if that means pretending for a while, until it really does!!!
sorry i'm sounding like a deranged madwoman, but i'm just so lost and confused, and i want to shake him and say for gods sake get a grip, and sort this out!!!!
ziggyx
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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jayney45
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Reged: 21/10/2009
Posts: 60
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gosh there are so many of us who can relate to what ur saying me included. ur right u have given him the chance to go and he is still there, so surely that must mean he doesnt want to give up. i understand what ur feeling like, yes it does drain you puting a front on for other people, i myself do it frequently, i dont have the answers but just coming on here helps to off load. hope u work it out, and if u do let me know the secret
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6190
Loc: runcorn
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No suprised you sound like a deranged madwoman Ziggy , he'd have driven me to distraction.
oes he have no hobbies or interests, even if it's going to the pub.
Are your children too small to be taking part in activities? Like football, or drama and then you get to go to games and performances together?
At least he has spoken to his brother. Maybe he's getting there sloooooowly and all you can do is give him time. I know what it's like to think things are never going to change, but they always will and always do.
Chilla x
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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superbakerqueen
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Reged: 01/08/2007
Posts: 366
Loc: West Lothian,Scotland
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Hi Ziggy......Maybe counselling is the answer!?...A trained counsellor Will be able to help you both find where the marriage is going astray and help you both communicate with each other.
From what you've posted it seems your OH isn't sharing his thoughts and feelings (typical man behaviour) and an outside party is able to help with this....how can you make such a big decision if you don't know all the facts?
I agree with Chilla too....memories help keep a marriage together.When my OH and I went through similier probs to you...(I was the one who wasn't sure) he remindered me of WHO I fell in love with and why by sending me a little bunch of freesias but on the card he wrote his "chat up" line to me...which helped ME remember how we got together.
Life especially with two little ones can be so draining and boring that you need to keep conneting as people and not just as Mum and Dad.....tlk about good old memories and make good new ones...
Hope you both work it out.....thinking of you both
Barbara
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ChrissiFi
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Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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I'd say that if you don't do much together now don't change to do less together as that would be opening the gap even further. Can you find things to do as a family? What sort of dates did you enjoy together before the children came along?
It's very, very easy to get into a rut and very, very hard to get out of one. As Barbara says remembering what got you together might help. Get the photo albums out and spend a while reminding yourself what things were like - might give you some ideas to kick start him into action.
Good luck,
Chrissi
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Deety
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Reged: 01/05/2009
Posts: 33
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Hi Ziggy,
Having read this and your previous posts about this subject I am probably going to upset lots of people with my response BUT this is exactly what I would say to any friend of mine who had been messed about by their partner having what appears to be some sort of mid-life crisis.
For goodness sake woman - grow a backbone!!!!
What on earth are you talking about - changing yourself to be the perfect wife???? Are you mad??? HE is the issue here - NOT you. HE needs to grow up and get with the game - you have young children - yes that means life may be dull, stressful and probably not full of the joys of spring marriage-wise for the first few years - that is what the business of looking after young children, whilst working, running a home etc is all about. HE's not happy, HE's depressed???? And........ your point is?
Are you happy? No - but are you threatening to walk out on your kids? No - that's because you are sticking it out for the sake of your children having their mother there - THAT is the commitment you took when you conceived them (together - I guess he was part of the decision to have them too), and THAT is the commitment he took - not to bail because he's " feels that you have grown apart".
My advice - pack his bags - sit them by the front door - when he gets in tonight - say "You've got 24 hours - at the end of 24 hours either you and your bags are gone - and the divorce papers are in the post or you are here FOR GOOD, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, as you agreed to be and I want to hear no more of this "grown apart" rubbish" - no more threatening to leave, no more whinging, no more nothing - you shut up and get on with it as I have to". or something to that effect. Then leave him to it and if he goes get on with planning your new life.
What are you teaching your children with all this? That Mummy can be messed about, and have her emotions and guts ripped out because Daddy doesn't know what the blazes he wants from life?? Is that the message you want to give them? I would hope that the message you give them is to stand up for yourself - if someone doesn't want to be with you or doesn't know if they want to be with you (whatever that means - you either do or you don't - you don't dither about an issue like that) then they need to get out of your life and let you find yourself someone who knows what they are doing and DOES want to be with you. Have some pride here please! Stop pandering to him.........
If he is depressed as in diagnosed with depression etc, then on the condition he has got his butt down to the docs, is on tablets, seeing a councellor etc and DOING SOMETHING about it, then maybe a bit of leeway can be given, but if he hasn't done so then clearly his priority is not the welfare of his children and his wife - so again - the door is over there..... don't let it hit you on the a*** on the way out as the saying goes.
I have a friend at the minute - her OH does nothing for their young children apart from occasionally show up at birthday parties where he sits there like a miserable lump of dough - she is working full time, looking after them, cooking, cleaning etc and she is depressed. She has spent the last 3 years complaining about this. When she has to work nights, rather than he take a night off from his social life, she leaves the kids with her family, then goes to pick them up in the middle of the night, waking a 1 year old and a 3 year old up from fast asleep, to take them home, - because he "needs his nights out". I'm afraid I think she is letting her children and herself down very badly here. She needs to grow a backbone and tell him to become part of the game or leave. Letting him get away with this for 3 years, she has made her own bed - I'm afraid I have no sympathy for her anymore and no time to listen to her whinge. The ones I feel sorry for are those children.... what kind of example are they being shown here?
Right, am no doubt about to get lots of replies jumping up and down on me now because I have said something other than lots of sympathy and "bless him, he can't help it" etc BUT may I point out to you that you get only one chance at this life, and wasting it, waiting for someone else to make up their mind and wasting your children's childhood waiting for someone else to make up their mind is not right at all........
Deety
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Ziggy1
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Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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ok...i'd just like to say, i wasn't talking about "changing" myself in anyway (after all...i am the perfect wife ;-), and i wasn't really referring to the ironing either)...but at the moment, i'm walking around with a face like thunder most of the time, and snapping if he does something one minute, and being blase the next!
I dont' want to put on an act, i'm just not sure whether, in the spirit of trying to make it work, i should be pretending like things are going well and i am happy, or whether i should be doing what i feel and stropping around swearing under my breath!!!
its hard to explain, i have a backbone Deety, i have packed his bags, and he's still here....i am sorry about your friend and I agree that she needs to sort her husband out, and if she came on here, many people would give her all sorts of advice.
It is not so easy just to "leave" (or kick him out!) as you may think, not when you love someone, and you know that you will end up a single parent ferrying your children around between parents for the next 15 years! That is not what I want for my children nor for me, and if it means that I have to MAKE it work for a while then so be it. I won't just give up at the first sign of trouble, i got married for LIFE and if that doesn't happen, then it won't be because i didn't try!
ziggy
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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Foxie
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Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 8003
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Ziggy1 - sending you a big hug, 'cos you certainly need one.
A completely different point of view now....... Perhaps you need to step back and give him some space and time to sort himself out? You seem to know exactly what you want, whereas Mr Z doesn't seem so sure. Is he having problems at work or in a middle life crisis?
Forgive me if I have completely misread the situation......
Foxie x.
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I've learnt that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou.
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daisieday
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Reged: 09/08/2009
Posts: 19
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hi ive also read your posts and have to agree slightly with Deety You cant keep going round in circles getting nowhere .You should maybe pack his bags again ,maybe you need some "space". Call his bluff. You love him and i can totally understand you dont want to hurt your kids (it would break my heart too) but your not going to get anywhere unless you take a stand,even if its not what you both want. If he does go met up ,like a date,and take things slowly.I think sometimes you have to take a chance you may not get the outcome you want and if that is the case youve not waisted months goind round in circles But on the other hand it might just be what you both needed .I hope it all works out for you and your family.
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Mochashosh
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Reged: 16/02/2009
Posts: 272
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Poor Ziggy - how tough for you to have to be the only grown up and make all the decisions. I know how hard this is because I've been doing it with my b/f for years.
It's not you that has no backbone, but it sounds like he is somewhat spinally challenged. Actually, 'friends' sounds like a very good place to be after several years of marriage. What else did he expect?
You know, another way to call his bluff might be to disappear with the kids for a couple of days. Do you have anyone who can put you up, strictly for a day or so? Leave your husband a note so that he doesn't think you have come to harm or left for good, but say that you are giving him some time to see how life will be without you, and tell him when you will be back. Don't call him, and switch your mobile off. Say that when you get back, the two of you are going to have a talk and sort things out. Ask him to come with you to Relate, if that's what you want. Explain that you love him, and you want to be married for life, but that something has got to change because neither of you are happy.
Obviously don't try this if he is the sneaky type who would do something horrid like change the locks when you are away.
And by the way, what I really wanted to say was 'good on you' for believing in marriage and making an effort to stick with it even when times are tough. You are right; you promised to love him 'for better or worse'. This is worse, but if you both want it, I truly hope for both your sakes that it will get better.
Apologies if I have offended you or underestimated your situation, but it seems to me that what you have tried in the past has not worked perfectly, so it is time to consider the alternatives.
I really hope this works out for you; you sound like a very caring person with all the right priorities, and you deserve to be happy.
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xxxSummerxxx
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Reged: 29/03/2008
Posts: 10528
Loc: Billericay,Essex
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What kind and caring advice Foxie and Mochashosh.
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Bev1961
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Reged: 13/10/2009
Posts: 40
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I so feel for you. I was in the very same situation many years ago, and it took me a long time to decide on whether I wanted to be a single mum or an unhappily married one. For a long time I put up with the "loss of love" because I thought that it was just a transitional thing, as in you start off in love but the years together turn the fire and passion into a much deeper and stronger form of love that joins true trust and utter content. My only advice is don't do anything in haste, as others have said it could be a mid-life problem or just like I said a transitional one and he is just worried that the spark of fire and passion is missing. All you can do is remind him you love him and show him that his children do as well, and ask if he would try relate. All the best love. X
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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Deety, yes you only get one chance at life but relationships need a certain amount of give and take. Ziggy has all the backbone she needs but has recognised that there has to be compromise. She's obviously very strong because rather than just giving up on the relationship she's doing everything she can to hold it together and find a way to resolve the problems.
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Ziggy1
member
Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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Thanks guys for all the support, and the hugs (foxie!)
I do need a few of those! I have been thinking for a while about going away for a few days to give him space, i've even suggested he goes away for a few days, but he is concerned that if he does i won't let him back in!
I really do think he wants this to go back to normal, and he has just hit a wall...i am a very impatient person and i want instant results, last week we were getting on really well, and i felt like we were making progress....but it didnt' move on from there!! But then he said that he thought we were doing really well last week, and we just needed to take it really slowly!!!
So....i am going to have to learn a bit of patience i think, i have to have faith that its going to work out, and that either way i have to do whats best for my children, which at the moment is to have 2 parents together!
We'll see how it goes, i may be back for some reassurance and advice, and i thank you all and apologise in advance for taking your advice and then still needing more a week later
zx
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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ROW
member
Reged: 16/10/2009
Posts: 179
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Hello Ziggy1..its really difficult situation..been there myself.....Same time as you,young children who need all your energy 24/7..OH came out with same thing. Sometimes, no matter how selfish,frustrating,annoying ect they seem,the people we love need space and support, We all go through 'stuff' and nobody is perfect ...isnt it meant to be ...through good times and bad.
I gave my husband the space and support I felt he needed..you cant force anybody to open up until they want to, and just got on with my life. This was not denial on my part..it was a conscious decision. This was about him...I did not allow it to become about me.
My husband eventually sorted out his own feelings and resolved things within himself(it was all to do with feeling left out and a bit lonely since the kids arrived,as much as he loved them,adored them and wanted them), and that was 7 years ago and we are still very happily married...and I have his eternal gratitude for standing by him..
I would like to say,I am a strong,independent woman and dealing with this kind of situation with support and kindness if you can, doesnt mean that you are weak,it just means that you love someone enough to help them through a tough time.
It may help,it may not..it just depends on what the issues are that the person is struggling with and if they can be resolved...once they know what they are.
I hope things work out for you, I wish you the very best. Row
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PLASMO
member
Reged: 13/03/2008
Posts: 13009
Loc: FLOUNCELAND
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Hi Ziggy,
Sorry to sound so negative, but believe me, Love will find a way, somehow.
Presuming your love for each other is still there.
Plasmo x
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Ziggy1
member
Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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Hi guys....thanks again.....yes we do still love each other, and neither of us wants to be seperated or divorced or have the kids split between us!
And Row, thank you for giving me hope, it was just what i needed to know that it can go back to the way it was!
I am not in denial, i know that it could all go pear shaped, and i know that we may still end up apart, but i have to hope that it sorts itself out, and everytime we talk about it i feel like its adding a bit more pressure to the situation. So i'm going to try my very best to give him the space required for him to figure out what he needs, and if what he needs is for us to seperate then we will have to deal with that when it happens!!!
I cannot tell you how much just getting everyones opinions helps me sort this stuff out in my head.
zx
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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Just hang on in there. Patience is probably the virtue you're going to need. I can see his point about being scared to go away in case you don't let him back in!
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splash24
member
Reged: 10/08/2009
Posts: 650
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Hi sorry if I say something that has already been said ....so many long replies I have skimmed rather than read them all....sorry
My advice for what it is worth is to be happy yourself.....do what you want to do ...see friends for coffee ...chat to friends on the phone ...buy /borrow a dvd you enjoy ...do what ever you would like to do within the confines of work and children....meet people at a Walking Group or Supper Club....I think meeting and chatting with female friends is so very different than trying to talk to a man who really doesnt want to chat..
If you enjoy YOUR life you will feel happier and may be a more interesting fun person to have around....he can then do his own thing ..and either decide to stay or have a trial separation to see how you both feel....your happiness is your responsibility no one elses.....YOU make your own life and happiness to a large extent ...Go Girl Go ....there is a whole life out there to enjoy ...Go get it !!!
and a Big Hug and Good Luck from me!!!
xx
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jacqui_o
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Reged: 15/10/2008
Posts: 834
Loc: Lowestoft Suffolk
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Sorry to say this but if he needs space then he should ahve joined NASA!!!
By not talking about it, is denying it is there and by putting off these covnersations, he is controlling the whole situation......
Counselling is a very very good idea, and you shoudl seek this as soon as possible....
Sorry to disagree the worst possible thing for children is to have two parents living in the same house who do not want ot be together, or one doesnt...
children sense these things, they are far more astute than we given them credit for...
Why not take a leaf out of Row's book..... get your parents or someone to have the kids over night, arrange a night out with friends for just you......
You are allowing him to manipulate you and the situation to his advantage, he is only look at him.... there are 3 other people in the house to be considered as well......
Again counselling is a good step, even if it is somehtign at work.....
good luck
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ROW
member
Reged: 16/10/2009
Posts: 179
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Hi Ziggy1, looking back, I remember that I told OH that I knew he was struggling and that he was unhappy,so I was going to give him support whenever he needed it and space and time so that he could try to resolve whatever it was. Think its important to actually say that,otherwise you run the risk of him thinking you are withdrawing from him and have totally given up. Just a thought I wanted to share. Good luck with it all, and yes things can go back to the way they were, and it can be even better than it was because of the support you gave at a time when he really needed it. Take care Ziggy and hang in there. Row xx
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mich11
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Reged: 27/10/2009
Posts: 6
Loc: south croydon
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hi ziggy , have not used this site before so bear with me!
i have been spending the last few yrs tring to get it right for my o/h even moved to france to make his dreams come true (not mine). Lasted six mths he hated it so we came back. At the moment we are on session no.6 at relate (my idea did not know what else to do!) it has helped him mainly open up and talk , he is very much a non talker about his feelings.It has helped me understand him better, got a long way to , but i know it,s hard to give up on your marriage if you still love him ,l still love my o/h but after 12 yrs together it is very hard to finish it. Hoping the relate will work has hepled alot , worth thinking about. good luck hun, you are not the only one in the boat!!!
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lark54
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Reged: 02/09/2009
Posts: 16
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It's been well over a month since I last posted on this forum but I have been dipping in and out and just wanted to say to Ziggy to be aware that if she does not get OH to deal with his issues now then it may only get worse. I am still dealing with OH and the mayhem he has caused in my family by wanting to end our 31 year marriage because he feels there is nothing for him in a life together. He is still at home and jobless and continuing to refuse to move out. Being faced daily with his rejection of me is very hard to take and I have tried hard to keep things as civil as possible but the past couple of weeks have been bad and I have confronted him on several occasions to vent my pain and hurt and anger. Doesn't help really. He wants to be in HIS house to grieve he says so he will not move out even for my sake (or his YD). Self - centred *******. Blazing row this weekend not in a good place just now!
If you packed OH bags, Ziggy and he still didn't go then maybe he doesn't want it to come to that but you must be sure he wants you to be together - really together. You have young children and it is difficult to contemplate a life bringing them up without their Dad around and you still have love for him so fight for it. It sounds as if you are doing the best you can for now and I know it isn't easy believe me. My OH disconnected from me without sharing his thoughts - keep trying to make him realise what he has but remember that if he doesn't put in the effort you must do what is best for you.
I wish you all the best and take care
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issi
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Reged: 30/09/2007
Posts: 3746
Loc: London
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Hi Ziggy. Your heading it spot on - you want to remind him why he loves you. I would make sure your framed wedding photo is prominently displayed in your sitting room. I would make sure he sees you as the lovely girl he fell in love with by showing some humour and lightness by making him smile when you are together (I know what I mean but can't tell you specifically how you should do this) and I would ask him to show you how much he cares. Keep asking for this, he may well try to avoid being demonstrative but you need him to think about you and not himself. Be demanding, tell him you want a great guy on your arm, like all women. Something may get through.
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ROW
member
Reged: 16/10/2009
Posts: 179
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Ziggy, Mich11 and Lark54, sending you all hugs and hoping it works out for you all. Row xxx
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Shekinah
member
Reged: 09/08/2008
Posts: 217
Loc: Bedfordshire
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Hi Ziggy,
I understand so well your impatience with the situation and your need to get back to normality, even if you pretend for awhile. I am in a similar situation, I feel however that you need to be aware of the fact that no matter what you do or say, or how much space you give your OH, babe, he ain't gonna change!! I'm just realising this now about mine 20+ years into our marriage.
I agree with everything splash said about making a life for yourself, doing what makes you happy, because as she says, life is too short and precious to waste. I have decided that I'm not going to spend the next 20 years of my life trying to figure out what to do to keep my marriage going because that is a joint responsibility. If my OH can't or won't take his share of that responsibility, I won't be doing it for him. It's as simple as that for me, but I do accept that you may not be where I am yet.
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Alice23
member
Reged: 21/09/2009
Posts: 180
Loc: In Wonderland
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Hi Ziggy
Yr question how do I remind him why he loves me?
You might start with spending more quality time together. Sounds corny I know but you have small children - been there and have the T shirt. For most of us before the children all yr time is spent enjoying each other. Add children to the equation and your relationship changes sometimes it becomes all about the children. So ask someone to help you both - don't keep packing his bags - you both need to go out and be honest with each other and remind each other why and how you fell in love. Share your memories and focus upon the good times and hopefully more good times will come.
hope this helps.
Best wishes Alice
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Ziggy1
member
Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 172
Loc: cloud cuckoo land
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i'm phoning Relate today!!! we are going to counselling, long chats (again!) last night, i told him that i don't want to go to counselling just for the sake of it, i would rather split up than waste time and money (and tears) telling someone else whats going on, if its only one sided? I said i can't go on like this anymore, and it needs to get sorted one way or another. then he asked if i had been looking at Rightmove the other night, he'd seen the page up on screen!! i said i had because if we splitup we'll need to sell the house!
Anyway turns out he actually picked up a counselling leaflet off his own back the other day, and he wants to give it a try! says the leaflet makes it sound like there is hope!?
He says he feels like something is missing, like a piece of a jigsaw....hope the counsellor can help us get it back!!!!
I'm really nervous about ringing Relate!!!
ziggy
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Just living is not enough. One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower. ~Hans Christian Anderson
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ROW
member
Reged: 16/10/2009
Posts: 179
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Go for it Ziggy and the best of luck to you! Row
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flower2
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Reged: 28/03/2007
Posts: 141
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I have been married 37 years, from the age of 18 and I sometimes wonder if anyone would be married if the woman did not keep it all together, I told my daughter the other day about how I used to leave notes for him telling him how I felt because he would not talk to me, he never really replied but I love him and I know he adores me, he just didnt know how to talk about how he felt. After all these years he has realised that a woman needs to talk about feelings and he really tries, keep at it Ziggy, your children need you both ( dont be deceived by today's mantra that life is too short to waste, every single person has their faults and you may just trade one problem for another).If you really love each other it is worth fighting for. Please remember if you loved each other in the beginning it can always be rekindled, never ever take each for granted and always respect the other person.
Best of luck, keep trying, if it is still the same in a year then think again, but at least two of my divorced friends said that if they had waited they would never have divorced.
Flower
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