Optimistic
member
Reged: 14/12/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: SW
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My mum is great company, we get on well but she is so inflexible that it hurts.
Today I popped over (as my day off of work) to return some books. My daughter is 6 next Sunday and I invited them (mum and dad) so a local restaurant for Sunday lunch. It’s a family place where they’ll cut and serve her cake and put a sparkler in it…she’ll love it.
But, as usual, she said no and handed me her gift. ‘No thank you, we’re not too keen on that restaurant’ she said.
This hurts me so much; they’re lovely family people my folks who are both retired – their time is their own so the can go to any restaurant they like, so why can’t they compromise?
We’re going out to a restaurant for my dad’s birthday next month which isn’t my favourite restaurant but, to me, that isn’t an issue. It’s the people that I’m with that counts
Golly, I need some words of wisdom please. I need to understand their perspective.
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shirleyc219
member
Reged: 26/07/2009
Posts: 380
Loc: Birkdale/Southport
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Morning Optimistic,
Is there some other reason she doesn't want to go there? Have you asked her? Why not send an invitation from your Daughter, or is it too late for that? Perhaps if they knew how you feel they may reconsider, you put it so eloquently to us why not try the same with your parents.
One other thought, it may not be your Mum at all, it could be that your Dad no longer feels comfortable going out much, I know from friends that lots of their husbands show reluctance at stirring from the tv/fire/football or even the paper!!!
Good luck and Happy Birthday to your d.
x
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Optimistic
member
Reged: 14/12/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: SW
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Thank for replying Shirley,
It IS my mum, she's very direct and says exactly what she thinks. She suggested a lovely pub about 40 minutes away and said she'd come then.
She's like it with everything and has been the same for years. I'll invite them over for tea at 5, she'll say they'll come for 6 because this is when they eat.
If I didn't compromise we would barely see them. I don't feel I see them enough as it is. With it being half term last week I asked them over for lunch on Monday but she said she was washing her sheets - and this is what she does every Monday. Tuesday is shopping day etc... This leaves no room for anything else.
I have tried, as has my dad, to talk to her but she's a stubborn bugger and I don't suppose she'll change now. She didn't come to my local graduation because it was tea-time, therefore inconvenient - I'm not joking.
I always get this feeling that we're all missing out.She's certainly missing out but then so am I, so are my children.
I live a structured life but, heck, there's a limit!
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kitty52
member
Reged: 24/10/2009
Posts: 42
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Hi Optimistic,
I have the same problem with my Mum. She is now 84 but has been like it for many years. I also work with elderly people and have seen the same thing. I think that as people age their lives become narrower and every small thing takes on a greater significance. They feel safe in their familiar routines and are reluctant to change. I have come to the conclusion that I am never going to change the way my Mum thinks and trying to do so was making both her, and me, unhappy. There is an element of selfishness in all this on her part, but I have to accept that. She does miss out on a number of things, mainly family celebrations, as you are finding out ......... we simply don't tell her anything which is likely to worry her.
It's a sad situation, but for my peace of mind I have learned not to analyse it, just be patient, as she will never change.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Kitty xx
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ROW
member
Reged: 16/10/2009
Posts: 179
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My mum is just the same and is getting worse as she gets older, I agree with kitty52, as they get older, familiar routines are comfortable. However with my own Mother, I know a lot of this is an issue of maintaining control. She has always been a very strong and organised woman. Now she is a little old lady(and I say that with the deepest love and respect), Her world has changed and is now ever changing because she doesnt have the physical energy or mobility she used to anymore. So she tries to control whatever she still can..and like you and your mum, this is usually things like timings, places to meet ect. She will not do something if it means her usual routine will be upset..and will just flatly refuse. Its very hard, but I have learnt to make my plans and if she can/wants to come, thats wonderful, but if she doesnt, I have learnt to let it go and just accept that that is how it is. Hope I have helped in some way. Best wishes to you and I hope your daughter has a lovely birthday. Row
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MAZL
member
Reged: 17/09/2008
Posts: 382
Loc: Cumbria
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My late mum was just the same even to the extent that she didn't come to my, albeit 2nd wedding, because she was playing golf!!!! My dad was furious when he found out as she hadn't even told him. We had a love/hate relationship as admittedly I was always a daddy's girl but luckily she treated all her grandchildren the same, my DD being the only girl with 4 boy cousins. I got round most of the problems as I lived 200 miles away and adapted a 'what the eye doesn't see' policy. Don't let it spoil your daughter's birthday. Perhaps if your dad said he was going antway she might change her mind. Have a great day. xx
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WoodyM
member
Reged: 01/04/2009
Posts: 670
Loc: Cheshire
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This is a very common thing and it comes with age....my OH elderly auntie, lovely woman, but 'funny ideas' and sounds a bit like your Mum! We do an enormous amount for her as her only son has lived abroad for 30 years.....last week was our 25th anniversary, we took them out for Sunday lunch....we've had no card or present!!!! She even refused to have her grandchildren stay/visit her from abroad. Not seen them for years!!!!
We just shake our heads bemused at some of the things, but its her choice.
Go with the flow......you are only upsetting yourself.....ROW's got the right idea.
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OL0212
member
Reged: 04/01/2009
Posts: 172
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Oh she has got you where she wants you x This is her having a little bit of control over you and you compromising constantly x
You need to read a book called the Gaslight Effect by Stein. It will help in the interim go with your instincts and do what is right for you and your lovely daughter.
Alternatively she could just be cranky and dogmatic
Just my thoughts
O x
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Lillie
member
Reged: 04/06/2008
Posts: 4739
Loc: Sandhurst, Berkshire
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Hi Optomistic
I have sent you a pm also OLO212 have just googled that book (I could do with reading it too lol) and one of the reviews is spot on about it
If you have a boss, friend, or relative that always seems to make you feel "bad," even though you try and try and bend over backwards to understand them and their viewpoint but they treat you even worse, read this book! If you cannot say anything right, if you don't apologize enough, if you aren't perfect enough, read this book!
If you are "in denial" because you don't agree with how someone else (the gaslighter) sees you, read this book. If you are constantly trying to figure out the "why" of their behavior, read this book. It answers so many questions. It helps you to see that you are a person of value. It also explains how this relationship occurs, and how to end it, or, if you choose, to live with it.
I wish that this book had been available a few years ago, it would have saved me a lot of tears and heartache. It has helped me to come to peace with myself and to not blame myself for something that wasn't my fault. Reading this book for the third time, I believe that I won't be caught up in a relationship like that again. Gaslighters are abusers (see also the work of Patricia Evans), and you don't have to take it anymore!
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X_Debi_X
member
Reged: 30/10/2009
Posts: 81
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I use to always say yes to people and now i am in my 40's i have the confidence to say no sometimes, if its an outing i'd rather not attend i will say no politely don't see the point of wasting an evening but i would always hopefully fit in important events in my children and extended families lives. I think as some people get to their 60's and onwards it's sometimes a case of losing their confidence like Kitty said and they feel safe in their own special environments. If it is a control issue she may be too stubborn to change now, i know i sometimes use to get fed up that we worked fulltime and weekends were filled with jobs running the children to thier activities and yet it was still expect for us to visit the relatives although they were all retired and had time on their hands but at the end of the day we have to go with the flow.
The one thing we can do is remember and when we get to that age and status be more flexible for our children.
x-Debi-x
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Optimistic
member
Reged: 14/12/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: SW
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Thank you, all this does help.
My mum does lead a narrow life, I suppose she always has. She hasn’t worked for many years and is now in her 60’s; she doesn’t have friends, she seems to choose not to as she does everything with my dad.
I’m not sure that she’s manipulative (but I’ll ponder on that) because she does state that she won’t do anything that she doesn’t want to…and she won’t.
I used to work with a lady who read psychology – she said something to me once that’s remained very poignant. I was refusing much-needed help at work. She said ‘It IS okay for someone to help you out just because they want to - there doesn’t have to be something in it for them’.
Wow, that was new to me. That was a revelation. I went home and told my husband because (especially as a mum/daughter/wife/employee) I felt I constantly gave/nurtured/compromised etc and felt like I didn’t ever get it back. Not quite that black and white of course, but as an adult, that was totally how I felt, and this was certainly how I was raised as an older child.
It does still make me sad though…
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scottishmags
member
Reged: 24/04/2009
Posts: 1302
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Hi Optimistic
I so agree that with older people it's a lot about the comfort of the familiar. If you think about it in terms of your teenage children trying to take you out on a Saturday night to a bar with thumping loud music, full of people you don't know and where you feel completely out of place, I honestly think that's the level of discomfort some older people experience when you take them out of their comfort zone. I don't think they really do it to be selfish, and I'm sure they don't mean it to be hurtful .. it's hard for us to understand because as far as we're concerned we're trying to do something nice for them
My mum was very direct too - if she didn't like something you'd bought her she would tell you with no compunction at all - and mostly my sisters and I could laugh about it but occasionally it was a bit hard to take I must admit
Your parents sound lovely in almost every way so don't take this too much to heart
Mags
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aec13cat
member
Reged: 08/01/2009
Posts: 3087
Loc: N. Ireland
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Really sorry to read this and your Mum is missing out on a lot. I know it isn't the same but my SIL is exactly like this. After many years I just have started to accept it is just her but it still hurts. I hope things change as this is different being your mum. Thinking about you as I realise how much it hurts and that is just with a SIL so cannot imagine what it must be like for you. I hope some other ladies may be able to help out a bit more.
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BettyRubble
member
Reged: 06/02/2008
Posts: 608
Loc: South west France
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If you're Dad is more understanding and willing to make the first move, perhaps he should tell his wife " She's my grand-daughter, It's her only 6th birthday and if that's where she wants to celebrate, that's where I'm going" Then he should go to the celebration and see what happens. Perhaps if she thinks he's willing to do things without her it may well change her mind. It may take a few instances and she may well act like a spoilt child and throw her teddy out of her cot, but if you all stick together it will be hard for her to carry on in such a selfish way.
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 549
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I agree with all the above, especially about older people liking their routine, plus your mother's got you where she wants you.
There may also be an element of OCD in her routines, as well.
However, personally I would react in two ways - firstly, let it go. ie, if your mum doesn't want to celebrate her g/d's birthday, tough on her. (Nice if you can persuade your dad to come along though!).
Second is this - hand it back to her. Do what you want to do exactly when and where you want to - just the way she does! Providing you hare handing it back to her what she hands out to you, that's fine. Do NOT rearrange your life for her! She is not rearranging hers for you, is she?
If she gets the message that others can do to her what she does to others, then it might either change her ways or at least remind her that it's a two-way street in life. You get back what you hand out.
I think the bottom line cause of her behvaviour is an urge to control - don't let you be one of the people she controls!
Oh, and next time she says she wants to go the pub 40 minutes away tell her you've never liked it and aren't going this time!
All the best, and don't let your mother control your action and your life. Give back what she hands out, because only that is fair.
Julie.
PS - maybe her own parents were very controlling, and this is her way of making sure that never again in her life does she end up doing what other people want her to do, not what she wants to do!
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rosettastone
member
Reged: 11/03/2008
Posts: 794
Loc: Kent/Surrey borders
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Another book to read on this is....Toxic Parents by Susan Forward ..all about control and making you feel guilty.
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carpe diem - seize the day!
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ladytulip
member
Reged: 16/07/2009
Posts: 122
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Must make life that bit more difficult and sometimes turn what are supposed to be happy family gatherings into bunches of sour grapes. I feel the best way forward is to let your mum know how you feel as tactful as you can while being assertive at the same time. Assertiveness is the best tool in this box. My mum was the opposite to this, she always put everyone elses needs first, i was so blessed. I am sure your mum will understand, sometimes we dont realise until someone points out. Hope it works out
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http://ltulip.tripod.com/TULIPS/tbee.gif
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 549
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That's another thought - maybe your mum's mum, Optimisitic, was like Ladytulips' mum - very very passive and self-effacing, and maybe your mum saw her mum being walked over and resolved that no one was going to do that to her (and they don't!!!!)
All the best anyway - Julie.
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hardyeargirl
member
Reged: 06/11/2009
Posts: 35
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Optimistic
That must really be exhausting to have to compromise with your mum every time. My mum also has not been one to soclialise. My dad has died recently and I wish she had friends. Thankfully she has independent qualities too though I dont know how she lives without being on close terms eg having people she can invite round. But she just doesnt seem comfortable with any company (except perhaps bumping into people sometimes) and prefers to do her own thing so I have to respect that. I think parents as they get older (though if your mum is in her 60s I wouldnt class that as such) there is more rigidity and lack of negotiation. There is an expectation you slot into their lives rather than them meeting you in yours, I have heard that from a few friends anyway. After retirement she may have decided to live in the way she chooses and not use time to do things she is less keen on. But to be a good family occasion it has to be something you all want to do. I dont know whether you could alternate where you choose to go out and sometimes you get first pick. But that sounds as though it may result in her not going, which does seem an extreme reaction especially when over a restaurant rather than a holiday resort! Do you think if she did make different choices she might enjoy them, perhaps you could convince her of that angle or say what someone else she knows thought of that place you recommend. I dont know what the solution is except to keep showing her you are on her side, are interested in her life and care but that you also have your own preferences too. it would be good if she listened to these as much as her own fixed ideas more.
But do value her company as she sounds a great mum in other respects.
I do understand though rejections of a gift must hurt, but perhaps explaining that gently may help or asking what she does want first time if all else fails.
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Carey
member
Reged: 03/06/2008
Posts: 163
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From what you are saying your mum has always been like this, I'm assuming she wasn't that old when you graduated?
Do you think that she may be mildly autistic? People who are find any changes to routine very difficult to manage and it causes them a lot of stress. Does she find it difficult to relate to people and 'read' their emotions? Just wondered as you think she wouls love to go to her grandaughters party.
Hope you go out and enjoy the meal whatever happens.
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