pamelajean
member
Reged: 11/11/2008
Posts: 17
Loc: Stockport
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Wise words Julie, and you are absolutely right, we do feel absurdly guilty as parents and try to blame ourselves for the behaviour of our adult offspring (and it is that guilt that has me sitting here in the kitchen at 4am, unable to sleep!). But my MS has been gone since thursday and already the house is calmer and tidier, and in my heart of hearts I know I have done the right thing and that he will get over his strop and grow up.
Now I just need to make sure I don't make the same mistakes with YS.......... 
good luck to you all
Pam x
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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I tried again - put up with the mess - bit my tongue but I finally lost it today. I told her to leave today - she has walked out taking nothing with her but the clothes she has on. I told her to pack her stuff but she refused saying she was only a minor at 17 and so I cant kick her out. I pointed out that is she was old enough to stay out all night and go drinking then she was old enough to fend for herself.
She went to her Gran (my mum) and was extremely rude and hurtful to her and then stropped off somewhere else. I dont know where she is - I have taken her mobile from her as I just found out that she had run up a £50 bill which I pay for - she doesnt have her keys either.
I hope Ive done the right thing - I love her very much but really cant cope with much more of her abuse.
Deb
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DawnieJ
member
Reged: 28/06/2009
Posts: 2
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Hi Debbie. reading your posted message made me register for this forum this afternoon as I just had to reply.
We have 2 sons, nearly 18 and 15. We were having the same experience with our eldest boy (untidy/dirty/smelly room, wanting to come home at any time, wasn't getting or turning up for work - rather be hanging out somewhere with his friends that don't work), etc. Wasn't paying his housekeep (even though he was earning when he did actually turn up!), stealing money from us to pay for his lifestyle, etc.
After trying to talk to him to explain how we were not working to keep him in a lifestyle, how he needs to respect his his family and home to live with us, etc. and then many many warnings, we eventually took things to the next level when he lost his job and threw him out of our home. He spent about 6 weeks staying at friends until their parents got fed up with keeping him and him taking their kids off the rails (yes it is infectious!!)
He wanted to come back but we stuck to our decision - after experiencing a few weeks of what it was like not to have that stress at home we really quite liked it (such a relief to remove the stress out of our lives) and it allowed us to give so much more to our youngest son and each other! You don't realise how much time and energy you spend on these things.
Though this tough love was one of the hardest things I have ever done and I felt a real loss, I have no regrets what so ever. We used to live in a battle zone but now we have so much more energy, time and money to enjoy life and our youngest son is now doing fantastic at school and seems a lot more settled now he does not have constant battles with his brother.
As for our eldest, he's managed to get a flat of his own and is being supported by social services. He seems to have grown up a lot since moving out (he pops by when he wants something!), but still tends to rather hang out with other friends that don't work rather then get a job.
Hopefully at some point he will get bored with this continuous playtime and having no money and will step up to become the man we brought him up to be and we can become close once again.
In the meantime, we are enjoying life for the first time in years so my advice would be, if your teen is not respectful of your work lifestyle or your home (yes it is yours too!  then perhaps they need to find their own place to live so they can go and do that somewhere else.
Hope this helps. Good luck. Hope it works out for you.
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DawnieJ
member
Reged: 28/06/2009
Posts: 2
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PS. If your 17 year old thinks you can't throw them out because they are a minor... they are very wrong!
Our experience was ...they present themselves as homeless to Connexions and they will, eventaully, be provided with a roof over their head as long as they can self care i.e. keep tidy home, cook, shop (you'll be amazed what they can do when they don't have you running around for them!). They will be supported by Social Services. However this is dependant on local services for teenagers provided by your local authority. Trafford, Manchester are very supportive.
Worth a try though...!!
Hope this helps.
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 556
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DebBee - well done! Great stuff! Now you've got to hold the line - you can see from the other postings here that holding the line DOES work. Of course they kick against it! They're teenagers - 'born to kick against anything that moves'....!. Plus, of course anyone who is living the life of Riley will fight tooth and nail not to have that taken away from them - we all would!
But this 'tough love' (and it IS tough and it IS love, on both counts!) really does work, and isn't it far, far better to go through a few months of 'horribleness' than to have an unacceptable, high stress situation just going on and on and on and on and (because MY GOODNESS, Teenagers are alos born to go on and on and on and on - they don't give in easily!)
One point though - and personally I think this aplies to all teens, and all parents, indeed, to all of humanity really (!) - mobile phones MUST be Pay As You Go! It's fatal for children and teens to have contracts (especially the ones the parents pay for.....) as they will simply talk and talk and talk and text and text and text. PAYG is really the only way for them to do mobiles. They put their own money on it - or, if younger, you put a set amount on each month (say £10), and that's that.
Doesnt' matter how tempting the contract deal is - walk away. After all 90% (if nt 99%) of all mobile phone communication is completely irrelevant and unnecessary.
Anyway, all the best, and you've done brilliantly - keep it going. We're backing you, so you are not alone.
Best, Julie.
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fredemily1
member
Reged: 01/07/2009
Posts: 4
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oh dear you are having a tough time. I have two daughters 23 and 19 and know a bit about what you are going through. My older daughter was tough at times; although looking back I think she was an angel in comparison to some - although I confess to having my hands round her neck on more than one occassion! Then she went to Uni and has turned out to be a really nice young woman. So hang on in there it can be a difficult time. I cant give you any specific advice but I would suggest that you choose your battle carefully and dont tackle all the problems at once. Choose what is bugging you the worse decide your outcome and however hard it is dont budge and dont move the goalposts. Once she is at university (hopefully away from home) the space between you will help.
Get her to use the loan system - wether you need to or not - it will make her realise that it does not grow on the tree in the garden (money that is). And dont beat yourself up about it. My daughters did not come with an instruction manual and I am sure your's didnt we just struggle through making the best of what each situation throws up. You are only doing your best and you cant do anymore. One day she will appreciate that - it might not be until she has kids of her own - but one day she will!
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 556
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"dont tackle all the problems at once. Choose what is bugging you the worse decide your outcome and however hard it is dont budge and dont move the goalposts."
Excellent advice!
Plus, don't let her try and 'expand the debate' on to other areas, which she will be bound to do, in order to wriggle out of facing up to the particular issue you are most concerned about. It will only end up with the classic teen riposte 'I didn't ask to be born!' (ie, it's all YOUR fault...etc etc etc)
All the best -
Julie
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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Thanks ladies for all your advice.
I have now had 3 nights with peace and quiet (apart from the thunder & lightening last night lol!) and am finally being able to think straight.
My D has landed on her Dad and he's not happy about that at all - doesn't want her there. She phoned me and gave me more abuse so I have told her to stay away. I will send round clothes for her if she gives me a list but she is not coming into the house. Im getting grief over not filling in her student load form (its not that easy when your self employed!!) so Im sending that onto Dad too.
Its not easy as I tend to have an over forgiving nature but somehow I am sticking to my guns on this one - we both need space for a few weeks at least.
It really helps that I can talk to other people on here - so please keep the advice coming as its been a godsend.
Deb
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suejane
member
Reged: 04/10/2008
Posts: 453
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My youngest daughter landed with us in Feb after dropping out of Uni and "Dad was too busy to fetch her" ! She keeps very much to herself apart from the odd spat with my husband, they do not like each other at all. Technically her dads home is her home but she seems more than ok here and is taking maths lessons to help her into another university. All you can do is whatever you think is right and stick to it although i am the soppiest of mums so i can not talk about sticking to anything!
Best wishes, they can come through this and so can you xx
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 556
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Deb - WELL DONE!
Hold the line!
If you think you are weakening, post here, and we will send 'mental reinforcements' to you!
If your daughter phones and gives you grief, hang up. Tell her you will ONLY talk to her if she remains civil on the phone to you.
We expect civility from completely strangers, so we should certainly expect civility from our children.
All the very best, and very, very definitely GOOD FOR YOU.
In the end, everything will be much better than it was before - but only you can make that happen.
Best, Julie.
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 8008
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Debs
I am so impressed by the way you have stuck to your guns and carried your actions through. It was lovely to read that you have had 3 nights of peace and are able to think things through too.
Take care
Foxie x.
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I've learnt that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou.
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kay3030
member
Reged: 05/07/2009
Posts: 3
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hi i am new to this forum, but this topic is so close to my heart, i went through hell and back with my daughter, we lived all over the world, and she lost control, it took me 2 hard years too get her back, its not perfect, but i pulled her back from the abyss .. she starts uni in september, and i hope that this will be the start of a new independent motivated women, i love her to bits, i dont know if i could have done all that is suggested on this forum, but i do know that you have to give tough love, cry when no one sees you, and know that tomorrow will be better
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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Hi Kay and welcome to the forum.
My daughter has been back once to get some more clothes - no apology apart from she knows she said some dreadful things "but then you do when you get mad!" so thats ok apparently.
She phoned today and want more stuff like a coat she forgot to take as its gone cooler. Still no please or sorry.
I was in bits after her last visit as I had hoped for some sort of peace/apology but it wasnt to happen.
She goes away on hols with her dad for 3 weeks soon - so we will see what happens when she gets back.
I miss her terribly and wish it hadn't come to this.
Deb
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fredemily1
member
Reged: 01/07/2009
Posts: 4
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Hang on in their deb rome wasn't built in a day - hopefully the time she is away will give you both space. I do so hope it all works out in the long run; it most likely will but its hell when you are going through it.
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racey
member
Reged: 28/05/2008
Posts: 900
Loc: Surrey
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DebBee - when I started reading this thread, my jaw was on the desk with all that your daughter is putting you through and as I have gone along, my horror has turned to anger.
She clearly has no respect for you and I just have to agree wth everything that has been suggested above - the time has come for tough love and for you to come first now.
Hopefully the 3 weeks away will give her time to think of what she is putting you through and hopefully she will have come to her senses. Did you sign the contract for her phone - if not, you need to suggest to her that she finds a way of paying the bill - she's making her problems your problems which just has to stop.
Please keep strong and focused - there are other success stories in this thread - you can be one of them too.
Special hugs coming to you.
Racey.
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suejane
member
Reged: 04/10/2008
Posts: 453
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Hi Deb. Im sending all good wishes to you. I hope you can find things to do whilst daughter is away. My daughter is probably very angry with divorced parents but i wont have her being rude to us.Now she says very little and i also would miss her if she wasnt here. You have done much better things than i could ever do and i applaude your courage. I do hope the time away will give you much needed peace. My thoughts to you xx
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busymum
member
Reged: 03/07/2009
Posts: 9
Loc: Nottinghamshire
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My goodness, I could have written most of these comments! I've been a widow for nearly 5 years and it's been tough bringing up 3 boys on my own. I have little family support, but ES is a sweetie, thoughtful, kind, not at all rebellious (currently at uni and works long hours in a supermarket to fund his accommodation). I think I was lulled into thinking they'd all be like that.
Then there's MS. I went through just what DebBee's going through almost a year ago. He was just starting his 2nd year of A levels and couldn't see the point of studying when he had mates earning "£250 a week as plasterers". He wasn't going to school, staying out till all hours, arranged a holiday abroad without my knowledge to celebrate a mate's 18th and then expected me to pay for it!! He was argumentative, abusive, ungrateful, and all this culminated in a violent outburst one night. I was frightened to death, barricaded in my bedroom with my YS aged 14.
He passed his driving test and I put him on the insurance of my six month old car. It didn't take him long to crash into a parked car which of course I paid for. He then took the car without my permission on a couple of occasions, once in the early hours to give his mates lifts home from nightclubs! I admit I am soft as anything with the boys, but I do have standards and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I took him off the car insurance even though it hurt me far more than it hurt him. He saved up the money for his own car and that was the end of that.
But that was nearly a year ago. I gave him time to calm down and then told him his behaviour was unacceptable. Once I threatened him with paying board, he couldn't get back to school quick enough. He's now finished his A levels, worked incredibly hard and is spending every hour of the summer in various part-time jobs so he has an "entertainment fund" for uni in September. I am very proud of how he's turned things round. It's not been easy for my boys. The circumstances of their father's death were traumatic, so to come out of it sane has been an achievement for all of us.
So my message to other parents out there is very similar to what you've heard already. Stick to your guns even though it may be very hard and it WILL come right in the end. My thoughts are with you. xx
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racey
member
Reged: 28/05/2008
Posts: 900
Loc: Surrey
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WOW Busymum - I salute you and thank you for sharing your story.
Welcome to the Forum - look forward to more of your posts.
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Lemony
member
Reged: 12/07/2009
Posts: 2
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Hi Deb
Goodness, I am glad that I found this forum. My D age 19 has been back from Uni for a couple of months and has also driving me round the bend with the mess and attitude towards our home. She has a rock solid background and is extremely intelligent. However, she is shockingly lazy and does absolutely nothing round the house. Her room generally looks like landfill site, rubbish strewn on the floor etc despite the presence of a large bin. She was untidy before she went off to Uni last year, but has come back even worse. I read the riot act yesterday and fortunately she has made some effort to clean it up. I feel for you in your position as it is difficult to maintain a good relationship with a D at this time.
My D's behaviour is no doubt as a result of being overindulged by me and the family her whole life. She was recently given £2K by a relative "to see her through the summer" and a grandparent gave her a £6K car. She does have a job though, and as a result has lots of money, and enjoys frequent holidays. When she steps out of the house, she looks like she has just emerged from the cover of a magazine, but her room, bathrooms etc tell another story!
Things between us were great when she was away at Uni, we met up frequently and she phoned every day. I feel guilty for saying this, but I am looking forward to her going back (into the luxury flat bought by the parents of her equally spoiled friend). I do think that there comes a point where both M and D need to separate in order to enjoy one another again. I truly hope that it works out that way for both you and your D. Good luck to you.
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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Hi All
Thought I would give you a quick update. Its been 2 weeks now since she left. I have had very up and very down days. There has still been no apology and no real contact other than the odd phone call when she wanted to come round for some more clothes etc. She still expects me to jump when she shouts but I have been firm so far and not given in. She goes away on Sunday for 3 weeks with her Dad - so we will have to see what happens when she gets back.
I just wish she would at least attempt to say sorry and then we can start to move forward.
Deb xx
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