DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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Some independant advice please. My only daughter is nearly 18 and is driving me insane. I have my own company which I set up last year and although it is thriving and growing - it does mean that it takes up most of my day (I can end up working 15 hours a day on most days). I am divorced and my daughter lives with me in what was the family home. When I got divorced 5 years ago I promised my daughter that I would keep our home until after she had finished school and college if at all possible. Its a large house - far too big for just 2 of us but I have managed to keep it although it has now used up all my savings and I have had it on the market for 12 months.
My daughter does not have a job and has lived off her EMA whilst at college for social money and clothes and has never contributed to the household funds.
Now that she has finished college I asked her to help clean the house whilst I am work but instead she lies in bed all day and when she is up, leaves the place in a mess and wont even put kitchen rubbish in the bin. Her bedroom is a pigstye and all I get is rudeness and backchat if I suggest she helps out. She is rude to my partner and any friends that come around to the house. Last week I got a torrent of abuse after she came in after staying out all night. She says she has no respect for me and that she had a terrible childhood as she was allowed most things that she wanted. ( I compensated for a bad marriage and then divorce!!)
I have asked her to contribute £30 a month towards the household bills or go and live elsewhere (her dad wont have her there). She is also expecting me to support her through university for the next 4 years too.
How can I make her see that I cant afford to keep her in the life style she now has?
I realise that I am also to blame for this situation as she was spoiled when younger but I cannot go on this way - its stressing me out and it is unpleasant to come back to my own home.
Your thoughts are very welcome ladies please!!
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gre1958
member
Reged: 15/08/2008
Posts: 1030
Loc: Staffordshire
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Morning Debdee
this could have been me writing not so long ago !
No doubting off spring can give us hell and sometimes feels like it will never end and must mean we are bad parents ... WRONG we are not . We had almost 2 years of very much what you have described and it is hard to believe now but daughter is a changed person since she left home - in the end I did "force" her out she had done the whole uni thing and coming back to live with us in new home (which no doubt be our last move ) I wanted it to be clutter free and reasonably clean and tidy , like you in our daughters case this was not to be , no job no life no hope really
despite all my efforts to support/cajole whatever she just seemed hell bent on pushing self destruct button !! nothing sinister I might add just sullen rude and selfish and very messy !
In the end I pretty much packed her bags (pals without children couldn't believe what I did ) but she had to get a job which she is still in some 2 years later and loves moved in with her boyfriend - and loves me too bits now very supportive caring wonderful young woman whom I of course never stopped loving !! - admits she treated us like battering ram and her room like a squat !
my advise .. mmmm well I stopped doing her washing/cleaning her room (that was so hard was disgusting ) stopped filling her car up with fuel etc , it is so hard to do when instinct tells you make them a coffee and try to talk again - looking back one of the hardest times in my life - all I can add that in my case it worked for the better - and she would agree . I do believe it is just a phase , and we probably put our parents through similar in one way or another - there is no book out there to give you the advice/skills it takes to be a "good" parent .Good luck !! and stop giving yourself such a hard time (says she who was kicking herself for months !! ) X
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 505
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If your daughter won't pull her weight in the house, ignore her. That means providing no services (eg laundrying, cooking, tidying, lending her your car etc) and give her no money (eg for food, fuel, clothes etc). Don't go into her room. Do NOTHING for her.
If she doesn't change her ways by l8, change the locks on the house, pack her bags, and leave them in the garage/on the pavement.
Finally, if the breakup of your family unit was not your doing (ie, it was your ex who wanted to clear out), it isn't your fault how you brought your daughter up. If you over-indulged her it's your ex's respnsibility, not yours.
All the best, and hope you soon get back a loving daughter who isn't a pain in the backside the way she is now.
Julie
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WoodyM
member
Reged: 01/04/2009
Posts: 624
Loc: Cheshire
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I have been very lucky with my two, YS still at uni (due back any moment  ) so we will have two months of untidness, strange hours, moods etc. His sister, now 23 was terribly untidy but has changed completely and is more tidy than I am
I am sure yr daughter will come out of it. Perhaps you should try a different approach, untidy bedroom- shut the door! Don't do any washing/ironing for her - I stopped when mine were 18. Don't fill up the fridge, let her fend for herself etc. Restrict the money/treats etc.
Above all be subtle - don't be drawn into the rows. I used to ignore my two, sometimes for days - worked a treat. If she is rude to people just laugh and say 'huh students!! She will get the message.
Good luck.... 
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bevvywevvy
member
Reged: 20/10/2008
Posts: 539
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Debbee,
Hi,
It is such a difficult time, I do sympathise with you. I have a teenage daughter, just turned 18 and a son who is 15, almost 16. The way they treat their rooms, their stuff, and me is something that beggars belief at times.
I divorced my first OH and spent 8 years alone with the children before remarrying. In that time, like you, I always tried to provide the best I could but on a very limited income.
ED has been through her worst years (I hope) and is coming out of it now. There are times when she is quite helpful,(sometimes without an unlterior motive!!) she will offer to cook the tea for us all and if bullied will tidy up her room and the teenage lounge. That is harder to get done but she is not as bad as she used to be. She leaves for Uni in September and I have told her when she goes I am going to strip her room and redecorate it. She has had her chance but she won't let me do it!
My son is just at the stage where he does nothing...absolutely nothing without a half hour fight beforehand. He doesnt shut drawers, cupboard doors, make his bed, tidy the bathroom....I could go on.
With both of them, I stopped washing and ironing their clothes on the understanding that once they tidied their rooms, I would do it again. I hate to see my son struggling to get dressed, but it is his choice. My D is more organised and gets a wash on every now and again. One good thing about this is that they have and are, learning skills which will come in hand when they do leave home.
Having read posts from others who have already been through this, I think we are just going through the worst of it and they will get more thoughtful as they get older and have to run their own lives.
I went to a talk at D's school where we were strongly advised to leave the students to sort out there own finances. That this was our time to let go and use the money once spent on the children on a well earned holiday. Now, whilst that is easy to say, I do understand where they were coming from. I fully expect my D to become gradually more independent the longer she is away from home. After all, when she leaves Uni, she will be 23...a fully fledged adult.
Good luck with everything, I hope it all settles down soon for you and that you D learns to fully appreciate what a wonderful mum you are and how much support you have given her and will always give her.x
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 7838
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Could you offer your daughter a part time job working with you during the summer before she goes to Uni? She would realise just how hard you work, that money does not grow on trees and it would also give the chance to get to know each other again on a different footing.
Good luck - teenagers do grow up and turn into the nicest adults.
F x.
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I've learnt that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou.
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WoodyM
member
Reged: 01/04/2009
Posts: 624
Loc: Cheshire
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Regarding the finances, don't think you are alone on this, going to Uni is very expensive. We did a deal with ours we paid the accommodation fees and they had to pay for everything else out of their student loan. They both had holiday jobs and we muddled along, we absolutely hate debt and my daughter still has hers !! however she doesnt have a credit card or overdraft. Son however doesnt manage very well and has an overdraft as well....we have had to grit our teeth over this. Friends of ours pay for absolutely everything at uni for their kids (sometimes a car)!!! and one even organised Tesco to delivery his groceries....
Just do whats right for you - it is worth it in the end 
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suzie88
member
Reged: 02/09/2008
Posts: 811
Loc: Essex
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I remember my mother when I was a teenager and several phrases spring to mind.
You treat this place like a hotel,
Tidy your room,
You`re not going out in that and many more.
I vowed never to nag my children like that.Life is too short to worry about whether your child`s room is tidy.Just enjoy the time you have together because once they have left home and you are alone you want good memories not bad ones.
Suzie88
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debenjanie
member
Reged: 31/01/2009
Posts: 224
Loc: Suffolk
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DebBee
Like gre1958 your story could have been mine a year or so ago. My beautiful YD was a nightmare to live with - all the things you described plus more. Every time I forgave her and poured oil on the troubled waters. Then I realised that I was making it worse by forgiving so easily ( hard not to when you love them so much) SO... I told her one day after a particularly nasty verbal assault from her that I would no longer tolerate her behaviour, which was making me ill, and said if she walked out the door then I would bolt it and take her key back. She walked out and I locked the door behind her. The hardest part was not knowing where she was living or if she was ok. At one stage she said I had to choose between her or my OH ( her step father ). I refused on the grounds that I can, and do, love them both. Slowly, very slowly she accepted that her behaviour would not be tolerated and with a few hiccups along the way we built our bridges, and I stood firm on the rules of the house. I cried so many tears and it was definately two steps forward and one back.
However, the young lady who has just visited us for Sunday dinner, bringing with her a gift for me, was my darling YD -grown into a wonderful woman.
We recognise that we get on so much better apart and thats how it has to be. YD is still only 20 and after getting and losing a few jobs along the way and staying at friends houses she now lives with a friend, has two jobs, pays rent and runs a car.
I never stopped loving her and it is a joy to spend time with her now.
Am sending you a bucket of strength to get you through this awful time.
If you need to chat anytime feel free to PM me.
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mcbab
member
Reged: 11/06/2009
Posts: 8
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I really do think that Foxies idea of giving your daughter a part time job in your business is a great idea. She will then be earning her way. If that should happen it would be a nice idea to go out for lunch with her now and then and discuss your business on an adult to adult basis. It is a very difficult stage in their life for them and also for us! I wish you well!!
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CHOPARD
member
Reged: 24/02/2009
Posts: 12
Loc: aberdare
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I have been going through the same thing for years and my daughter is now 18yrs, stays in bed all day, can't decide if she wants to go to Uni in Sept or find a job. I want her to go to Uni and find a part-time job, she has never done any work or helped me round the house, she is completely unmotivated. She smashed her car up on Saturday night and didn't even tell us, we had to hear it from the guy she drove into the back of. It is a right off and we won't be replacing it as have told her time after time to stop driving too close to the car in front of her and would only get backchat if I mentioned her driving was terrible. This is the second time for her to go into the back of someone. So no car or fuel and I want her to pack her bags and go!!
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2538
Loc: Somerset
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One thing that strikes me is that you say "Now that she has finished college I asked her to help clean the house". Surely she should have had chores to do since she was big enough to help out? I remember doing household tasks (usually something like washing up, wiping up, dusting, cleaning the bath and basin etc) from the time I was at primary school - there were badges for it in the Brownies when I was about 7!
The word 'NO' comes to mind here. Ok, she's an adult and left school so you can't control what she does outside the house but you can expect her to cover her expenses and do her share of the work at home. She's had an easy ride so far and it's time for her to realise you're not an endless supply of cash. £30 sounds very cheap - you can't even feed her for that - perhaps sending her to do the food shopping would open her eyes?
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Cadenza
member
Reged: 11/06/2009
Posts: 59
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I have been reading all the posts and it has brought tears to my eyes. Debdee I'm with you all the way. I have a D of 16 and S & D of 15 (yes, twins). they are lovely kids, but they drive me mad. My D has just finished GCSE's and hardly gets out of her pj's, lies on the sofa all day complaining that day time TV is rubbish. My other two are still at school but by the time I get home from work the mess is so depressing. I have my own business and often work 6 days a week and trying to get them to help out is impossible.
I have a go at them, and they will help out for a day or so, then back to their old ways. I tell them I have no money, but they still eat everything in the house so i have nothing to cook with. My son once had a mate sleep over and after i had gone to bed he pinched a full bottle of gin and drank it. He didn't even hide it, he put it in the recycling bin (well at least one thing has sunk in!!!)
not only are their bedrooms a tip they overspill into mine and I find all their make up, hair gel and dirty clothes spread about. I am at my wits end with them all. the house is horrible, messy and stained carpets.
Their father used to have them 50% of the time, but rejected them totally last August, so they are angry with him and he has the gall to tell me that he isn't happy with my parenting skills.
I have no idea how Uni will be funded, I don't have spare cash to give them. i get no maintenance from my ex and he says he will give them an allowance if they beg for one. (which they won't) Why did I have 3 children in 15 months. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but i wasn't banking on getting a BOGOFF (buy one get one free) with the twins!!!
I know it will be ok in the end, it's just now that is hell!! We need to support each other during this time.
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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I have tried that - I offered her work each week - but she doesn't want to do admin work - its boring!!! After asking her twice I then gave the work out to a friends son who is more than happy to be getting the money - and I get some help
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pamelajean
member
Reged: 11/11/2008
Posts: 17
Loc: Stockport
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my story is similar to gre1958. My middle son (yes 3 boys) came home from uni 2 years ago, and I told him then that we would review the situation in 2 years. He has worked only sporadically since, (about 15 months out of 24) paid some rent but only when working, treated his room and the kitchen like a student flat and treated the place like a hotel. My OH (sons stepfather) and I have nearly split up about it. 4 months ago I told him that he had to be out of the house by the end of june, and reminded him several times. He is moving out to his dad's , very reluctantly, this week . I have told him that I love him to bits but do not want to live with him as an adult any longer. When YS returns from uni next year he will get the same deal. The last couple of years have not been fun and the last 4 months even less so - I have shed more tears than I knew I had because he is my son and I don't want to hurt him, but in the end I have realised that I have a right to a life too and he is an adult. my advice? lay your cards on the table from the start, make it clear that it is your house and your rules. give deadlines and stick to them.
hopefully my son will eventually appreciate that what I have done is in his best interests too and return to being the lovely loving son that he used to be.
.Pam x
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Woodentop
member
Reged: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1827
Loc: Essex
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Went through this just a few months ago, so I know just how you feel.
My daughter moved out in May after many rows with her about the way she along with her boyfriend treated not only H and I, but our house with no respect at all.
Please hold on in there, dont do any thing for her, dont give her money just be there when she needs you.
My daughter and I in just 7 weeks get on better then we ever did. She has admitted she treated us badly. She says that having a full time job, sorting washing (just for two) food shopping and cooking is damn hard work, and she has no idea how I have done it in a house the size of ours with along with the large garden we have. We have had almost 3 years worth of financial worries just to add to it. I didnt like myself for what I saw as pushing her from the family home, but its the best thing I could have done, my daughter now calls on me for advice, she wants to spend time with me and we have such a laugh these days. She took a day off from work to spend my birthday with me, she hasnt done that for years, I told her just how much I appreciated it and she cried and said how lovely it had been.
Your daughter will appreciate you in the long run, get tough with her, ask her to go and spend time with someone for say a month or so, dont pay for her to do this, she needs to take responsibility for herself and upkeep, she will see how hard it is to cope.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Woodentop
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gre1958
member
Reged: 15/08/2008
Posts: 1030
Loc: Staffordshire
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Hi again .. just to say I hope after reading all the other ladies posts you will know you are not alone and like one lady said I too had tears in my eyes reading some
IT WILL GET BETTER .. I know you don't believe it now but having read and experienced it myself we all seem to say the same .. once they get out into real world sons and daughters just somehow change in to great adults !! do hope you are feeling stronger now - there did seem to be theme of withholding your cleaning/cooking and filling car etc so good luck and stay firm ! x
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DebBee
member
Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 21
Loc: Lancashire
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Hi Ladies
Day 3 of taking your advice and we are speaking just. I thought for a moment that she was about to try when she did some washing and tidied the kitchen - but then the sun came out and so sunbathing and reading was the order of the day.
Ive tried with-holding money, use of the car etc - but all she says is ok -no problem - wont bother to drive and will get others to pay for drinks etc - so no joy there. I am now the proud owner of 2 cars - one of which I now have to repay the load for.
I told her to move out - and she just said no - she was staying put and that was that - Dad doesnt want her there and neither do her mates.
Im taking things a bit at a time so we will see what the next few days bring.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Just knowing that people are there makes a big difference.
Deb x
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pamelajean
member
Reged: 11/11/2008
Posts: 17
Loc: Stockport
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well my MS has almost packed and gone now, came home from work, loaded car and drove off (presumably to his dad). I realised there was light at the end of the tunnel when I checked his room and realised his computer had gone. Am looking forward to coming home to a clean and tidy house, and to sleeping through the night, undisturbed by 5am homecomings.
It has been great reading these posts and seeing that many others have been there before and survived. And to think I used to run "surviving teenagers" courses - but it's different when it's your own.
Stick to your guns DebBee and don't put up with any sh*t.
Pam x
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 505
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Debbie, so glad to hear you've made a start. However, clearly a long way to go yet!
You have a freeloader on your hands, and no mistake (and so do a lot of other mums here, sadly!).
Couple of things - tell her, and tell her again, and tell her you've told her (then tell her once a week hereafter!) that, on her l8th birthday, you are changing the locks on the house, and that's that. Book the locksmith now for the day after her l8th birthday. Doesn't matter whether she's inside the house or not - once she goes out, she doesn't come back in. You have the keys, and you KEEP them on you - pin them to your bra in the daytime, and sleep with them under your pillow. The spare set goes to a friend. Your daughter doesn't get them. Once she is out that door, the next time she arrives it will be as a guest only.
I find it JAW-DROPPING that she had the gall to tell you she's not moving out! Incredible cheek!
Secondly, sell the second car, now. Just take it down to a used car merchant, and take a cash offer, and put it in your bank account. Use the cash to repay the loan, and keep whatever is left, if anything .That's it. If she wants another car, she finances it herself.
Bluntly, she is trying it on! It's blatantly obvious that what she's doing, and the next step on her part wil lbe to try and paint herself as the injured martyr with the monster mum! Don't buy it. Stay firm, hold the line. She says she'll get mates to buy her drinks - yeah, right....for a few days I'm sure they will. Then they'll ge fed up of her freeloading off them. And mates won't pussy-ffot around her like mums do! They'll tell her to shove off and buy her own!
If she does start to wise up, and realise she can't bully you any more (as that is what she is doing), and does start to pull her weight, eg, by doing the laundry as you said she made a start at, it might be best not to do a 'job swap' deal with her - ie, you do some work around the house for her (eg, tidy her room) in exchange for her helping you. Instead, continue to not enter her room (and anything of hers that's lying around the house goes into her room)(or a black bin bag that's kept in your room - locked wardrobe - and stuff is only retrievable on the payment of a one pound fine per item!)(money can go to charity if necessary).
For work she does, pay her. The minimum wage is, I think, something like £4.50 an hour (she'll know, believe me! Which is exactly why she doesn't want to work!), so pay her that on a strict time basis (IF it's productive time that is!). That will help her realise the value of her labour, and it will also stop her 'inflating' the worth of what she's doing (Her: "I hoovered the house last week for half an hour so I don't have to do anythign else for a month now....")
Finally, my key point is this - we all, as parents, feel for some logically absurd reason 'guilty' when we make our teens behave as adults, instead os as children. So we end up with a situation where they want the privileges of adulthood, without its reponsibilities.
But one of our KEY responsibilities as parents is to turn teens into adults, and that means making them accept their responsibilities. Of course they won't if they can get away with it! (remember, I'm the one whose brother and SIL have a 27 year old daughter who has no qualifiications, no money, no job, nothing!)(in her favour, she DOES do a LOT of work around the house, so she is not a lost cause!)
All the best to all of you, and BOY am I learning what mistakes not to make with my own son when he gets to that age! (And BOY do I not want to come back here and eat humble pie saying 'er, you remember I gave you all that good advice about how to stop your teen turning into a freeloader, wellllll,..........) !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Julie.
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