alisonmpg
member
Reged: 19/05/2009
Posts: 31
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Well I thought I had problems, but have today been talking to a very good friend who is at her wits end and could do with some advice. Her story is perhaps common and in hindsight it's easy to say avoid the pitfalls but ..... My friend is a 54 year old divorced mum of 22 and 17 year old. Mortgage free house and currently studying for MA. 2 years ago she met an African gentleman via Christian website, living in London, re-training for career as social worker. To cut a long story short, she has "lent" him a large sum of money (5 figures) to finance studies, settle debts, pay for his children's schooling in Africa etc on the understanding that it would be repaid when family land was sold. Sadly her circumstances have changed and the money is needed now but relationship with Mr x is very strained and he is not making any effort to repay, or acknowledging the dire situation she now faces. Yes, it's easy for us to sit back and say she's been taken for a fool but that will not help right now.
She has no money to pay for legal advice - can anyone think of a course of action to help here? I've suggested CAB but not sure what they could do. Any advice much appreciated!
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 8004
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Could she ask for help from the Christian website operator?
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I've learnt that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou.
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gigi
member
Reged: 12/04/2008
Posts: 2473
Loc: Hampshire
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UK has double taxation agreements with many Europen & other countries, including some African ones. Your friend should look at the HM Revenue & Customs website to see if his country is part of that agreement. At least she may be able to threaten him with HMRC looking into tax he owes them, especially if he has a part time job as well, and at best it may shed light on what else she can do.
Also if your firend has parted with so much money then she should be able to claim back tax paid on the interest of that amount.
Cultural values about men and women's roles in a relationship should be taken on board before relationships are entered into. All men can charm when they want something, All can dismiss when they choose to ignore that same something as a debt, morally or otherwise.
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Jenniferpl
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Reged: 15/04/2008
Posts: 914
Loc: South East London
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Does she have any thing in writing? The first place she will need to go to is citizens advice, they will advise her if she is eligible to make a claim through the small claims court and how to do this, i understand that it does not cost much and is reletively easy to do. She should also consider sending a strongly worded letter from her solicitor saying that she plans to sue him for the money. But even though a verbal contract is valid, without something in writing it is extremely hard to prove and it could end up just being her word against his. It does sound like she has been manipulated though and is unlikely to get her money returned to her any time soon
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 Jennifer
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rosettastone
member
Reged: 11/03/2008
Posts: 794
Loc: Kent/Surrey borders
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Has any sort of written agreement been made here or was it all verbal? And how exactly does she know that his personal circumstances are what he says they are? She could try seeking to sue the guy in the civil courts and I suggest the CAB might be the first port of call. From what you say I am unclear whether there are any crimes here that the police might be interested in eg fraud. Sadly it sounds like a scam to me.
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carpe diem - seize the day!
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aec13cat
member
Reged: 08/01/2009
Posts: 3101
Loc: N. Ireland
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Sadly have to agree with Rosettastone - sounds like a scam to me and really do hope she has a good outcome. Coming from one who was scammed and police case ongoing (not by an African) but hindsight is such a good thing!! I wish her Good Luck.
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jelliclecat
member
Reged: 31/01/2009
Posts: 441
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Oh dear, your poor friend, what a mess. Alarm bells rang as soon as I read 'African boyfriend.' These guys can be so charming. I would think first contact the CAB, as unfortunately they'll have dealt with similar situations before. Then the administrators of the Christian website, then her Solicitor, if she has one (if not, CAB will suggest one, I'm sure) IF he is genuine, although sadly it seems unlikely, that might be enough to shock/shame him into trying to refund at least some of her money. Even if she doesn't get her money back any time soon, just knowing she's doing something concrete will help. Do let us know how she gets on.
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 555
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I very much doubt she'll see a penny, but it could be that at least she could get justice if at least she could shop him to the authorities (if he's been foolish enough to turn from conning to criminal in other matters).
As to the website she encountered this man on, I think she should do her best to warn everyone else who uses it as to what has happened - naming and shaming the individual concerned (it can't be libel as it is the truth), and warning all other British users about the absolute necessity of NEVER loaning or lending money to non-British nationals (or, indeed, British nationals come to that!).
Re 'proof' that she's lent the money - well, if she was sensible and did it via a cheque, then that will show the money has left her account, and when, and where the money was transferred and to whose account (though it might not, of course, be that of her so-called boyfriend....)
Of course, if she just gave him cash it's completely hopeless.
But even if she can prove she lent it to him, there is still no way she can force him to give it back as he doubtless doesn't have it any more - he's either spent it or handed it on to someone else. If she can prove it, then it might be possible to force him into personal bankruptcy to secure whatever she can back, though it's unlikely his possessions are worth much, and he can, of course, dispose of anything valuable beforehand if he gets wind of what she is doing before his assets are frozen by the bankruptcy laws.
This may sound harsh, but as citizens of one of the wealthiest countries in the world we HAVE to realise that EVERYONE from poorer countries simply assumes that (a) we are all rich (which in comparison to them we are!) and (b) we don't deserve to be rich so it's entirely 'fair' to part us from our money.
I could also add a (c) which is that, sadly, in poor countries bribery and corruption is very often the norm, as poverty so often erodes morality (hard to afford morals when you're on the breadline....)
In the end, I think this poor woman simply has to accept she's been stolen from, and move on - warning everyone she can in the meantime. I won't say 'a fool and her money are soon parted' because that is cruel and insulting - but I would say 'a naively generous lonely single woman and her money are soon parted'......
I would take a punt, sadly, that she will find, if she asks around on the website that she is not the only woman in her situation who has been similarly stolen from. The website operators have a duty (indeed, a Christian duty!) to put up very clear warnings NOT to get involved in any financial transactions with users of the site.
All the best to this poor woman - Julie.
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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Sadly unless she has a written agreement that the money was a loan and was to be paid back within a certain timescale I don't think she's got a hope of seeing it again. I doubt the Christian website will be able to help - it would be the same as if one of us lent someone else they'd met on here money, W&H wouldn't want to know as it would be nothing to do with them (and they legally can't give out personal contact information).
The old saying 'never a borrower or a lender be' still stands very well these days. Certainly lending more than you can afford to lose without a proper legal agreement is a potential recipe for disaster I'm afraid.
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Tuffy
member
Reged: 16/06/2009
Posts: 3
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I have had many dealings with people from Africa in business and have found that they have different values in relation to money. Unfortunately I would say that the chances of your friend getting her money back are practically nil. One possible course of action is to try to find out his visa status. If he is not complying with the terms of his visa threaten to report him to the Home Office unless he repays her the money.
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alisonmpg
member
Reged: 19/05/2009
Posts: 31
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To everyone who had replied to my plea for advice - a big thank you. Unfortunately my own fears are confirmed in that it is unlikely the money will be repaid (there was no written agreement, just a transfer of funds from one bank account to another). We do know his visa status - temporary until 2010 -so may be able to use that as leverage? Not sure, but will seek advice from CAB.
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 555
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It's a very disheartening situation, and perhaps all your friend can do is accept it as if she would have to if the money had been stolen from her in a robbery, and she had no insurance cover. That, and remember that, in life, in the end, what goes around comes around, and that one day 'justice will be served' on the man.
Also, thinking about it, after all, if he really does come from a very poor background, he may well argue to himself that he has no obligation whatsoever to return money to a woman who lives in a rich country, and has had a material life so, so much better than his own. Poverty changes morality in ways that those who are not that poor can't often appreciate - he may geninely feel he has no obligation to repay the money, any more than, perhaps, we might feel we have to bankrupt ourselves in order to repay a loan we borrowed from someone who is a millionaire....
I appreciate the website can't actively help, but they really MUST put out a warning on it, and say that some of the members have had loans unrepaid, and to warn every newcomer to it NOT to do so unless the loan is actually a gift, which is what it's going to prove to be!
When it comes to scams, we always have to remember that the perpetrator is, obviously, very convincing, and can produce hard luck stories (real or otherwise) that seem extremely plausible. After all, if they seemed like 'dodgy geezers' no one would be suckered at all, would they?
It is to your friend's personal credit that she was kind and generous and took pity on this man, and I hope that by the same justice that he will get his, so she will be rewarded for her kindness at some point.
Julie.
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