Optimistic
member
Reged: 14/12/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: SW
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My neighbour K has, over the years, become a close friend of mine. We had babies together and share walks to school. It became clear that she had a drink problem, which she admitted, although it is ‘controlled’ to some degree – she tends to drink heavily evenings only – she works in the day.
Her husband works some night-shifts; several times over the years she has passed out to be found by her eldest (now 9) who goes next door to a lady T who happens to works for social services.
Tuesday at 9pm I had a call from K’s daughter who said ‘come quickly, something bad’s happened’. I ran round and K was terribly drunk. Turns out that she’d had T’s daughter (also 9) in for tea, when T came to pick her up at 8.30 she saw K was totally intoxicated and has said she will report her to social services.
K says this isn’t the first time someone has reported her. A work colleague got social services involved years ago which I wasn’t aware of. Of course, now she’s terrified of the repercussions and has asked me to say that I was there for the whole evening i.e. the children were supervised. She used to have her SIL over when her hubby was away, but obviously no-one’s there all night if something were to happen. She’s frantic with worry.
However, there is NO WAY I am going to lie to the authorities - the children know I wasn’t there, T’s daughter knows I wasn’t there. I know she’s desperate but I’m not going to compromise my morals. When she spoke to me about it I just said quickly ‘just tell the truth, these people are here to help families, not break them up. Yes, I WAS there for a little while and the children know that’. She replied ‘you’ve GOT to help me’.
I haven’t see her since this conversation, but I feel awful.
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Trace1
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Reged: 04/04/2009
Posts: 103
Loc: Bedfordshire
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Hi Optimistic,
What an awful position you are in.... And what an awful position your friend has put you in....
Your right in that you have to help her, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind I think hey?
You cannot lie to the authorities and neither should you. I think that although it's a hard situation to be in you have to think about the children and their welfare first and your friend after... Just think how bad you would feel if anything happened to the children and you had stood back and done nothing!!!!
Sorry, that sounds like a bit of a lecture... It's really not meant to be I am just like you concerned and that the right thing gets done for them all... They really just need some help and support I think..
Good luck and let us know what happens
Take care
Tracy x x
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Thimble
member
Reged: 04/12/2008
Posts: 4325
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Don't feel awful ........... what you said was absolutely spot on. She has a major problem and those children are at risk. She needs help urgently. It is bad enough putting her own children at risk at that young an age but a neighbours daughter as well - that is not on.
Sorry to sound harsh but you must not lie or get involved with her trying to cover up. Those poor children need to be protected.
Off soap box now..............sorry but she is being totally selfish and out of order.
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Woodentop
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Reged: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1887
Loc: Essex
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Dont feel awful Optimistic, you are doing the right thing.
For her and her children your friend needs to get this under control.
Does her husband or family know how bad her problem is? Maybe they could help.
Woodentop
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annemari
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Reged: 07/03/2008
Posts: 3102
Loc: Gloucestershire.
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I, possibly am not the right person to answer this, as I can be very blunt.
Should you however lie to the authorities you will put yourself and your family in an insidious position. Records are kept, and so whatever you say will be recorded.
As for your friend, I only wish she had seen my SIL,(though thankfully there were no children) as she was the same, and eventually it killed her, about 5 years in all, 3 of which were beyond expectancy. Does she really want her daughter to see the complete mess she will be in when her organs start to fail.?
See if you can persuade your friend to seek help,offer your friendship if you can to support her if and when she sees the Doctor, lay the cards on the table. Her daughter deserves to have a mother, her husband deserves to have a wife. They all deserve to be a family.
Good Luck, I'll be thinking of you. This is not going to be easy by any means.
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Annemari xx
 The Three Musketeers were together again at Cardiff. Summer, ChattyCathy and my 'Mum' Auntie Annemari"
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Secret
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Reged: 02/10/2008
Posts: 1239
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If you lie for her your become her 'enabler' - she needs help and intervention by the social services could be a turning point in her life.
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' I mean what I say, and say what I mean '
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Thimble
member
Reged: 04/12/2008
Posts: 4325
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Can I hijack the post a minute...........
Secret - have emailed you and NEED AN ANSWER as I am soooooooooooo nosey.
Thanks.
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kate1
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Reged: 18/08/2008
Posts: 6817
Loc: Leicestershire
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I agree with what has been said.
I think,if I felt she wasn't going to contact me, I would write a note along the lines of feeling that she needs the help she hopefully will get now Social Sevices are involved, but letting her know that you havee no intention of abandoning her, that she is a friend, albeit a frend who needs more help than you can provide, but you will still be there for her.
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Mindy
member
Reged: 05/02/2008
Posts: 111
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T hasn't reported her to the social services. It may have just been a threat designed to shock K into action to sort herself out.
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jamjams
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Reged: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1174
Loc: geordieland
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Do not lie for anyone.
I'm with Secret by standing by and saying my neighbour is a drunk, you are giving her permission to be drunk.
I seriously feel her childrens needs to be assessed and her put in a recovery program. If she has been reported (depending on your authority) the kids best interest will be taken in to account
jamjams x
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JanieM
member
Reged: 31/08/2006
Posts: 302
Loc: Oxfordshire
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I have read all the above and feel that I have to say the following.
Knowing what you do and seeing what you have - maybe you should be the one that reports to Social Services (this can be done anonymously but it has to be first hand).
In all the high profile cases we all say 'Why was nothing done?' Many people feel that someone else will do what needs to be done, but someone has to do something for the sake of those children - they only get one chance at childhood and some intervention may be the turning point. It really is a case of doing it for her own good; but, more importantly for the children's. If anything should happen to the children and you hadn't acted then you would suffer enormously.
Maybe if you really can't do that then perhaps offer to go with her to an AA meeting, or at least explore the possibility.
As a professional who worked with children, if I had known something like that and not reported it then I would have been just as guilty as all the people who lose their jobs after the high profile cases.
I am really sorry if this sounds harsh, but experience has taught me that mums in this position are rarely able to turn it around without outside support and intervention.
J xx
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Jane X
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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Whatever you do don't lie for her. If she drinks heavily in the evenings chances are she's over the limit to drive in the morning. We've been there recently with a now ex colleague of OH. OH was convinced she was telling the truth about her drinking, I wasn't. The odd phone call to help out with something she couldn't manage became several calls a week, then every day. Her boss caught her drinking at work, she went to a support group totally legless and all the time was saying she had an odd glass of wine once in a while. Last time she turned up for work drunk her boss called the police. She's now without a licence, a source of income and looks 152 not 52! Last time a friend saw her she was clearly drunk at 10am. Sorry, but if you help her to hide from this IT WILL GET WORSE. If the authorities contact you tell the truth (all of it). OH's ex colleague's children (teenagers) had coped with the situation for years but the last time they had to call the paramedics because their mum was unconscious they gave up and moved out to live with their dad (didn't even tell her they were going). The daughter had previously failed her gcses because she was spending all her time running the house while her mum drank herself into a stuper. This is the sort of thing that happens when people believe that a drinker has things under control.
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rjaly
member
Reged: 09/02/2007
Posts: 172
Loc: Leicestershire
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How difficult for you all. I wonder if your friend's predominent concern is more about having been found out as a drinker and the possible consequence of having to face up to this? Her husband seems very much in the background but must surely be aware of the situation unless she goes on binges when he is away and stays in control when he is around?
If T hasn't reported it as might be suggested above, she must be feeling personally very torn and professionally,well. Having knowledge as a professional of something in your personal life that is out of order and involves either a friend or family member is mind blowing.
Hopefully, as others have said, if it is reported and unless T tells you,you may never know, she will at least have to confront her behaviour.CSS will not necessarily do anything,they may just record it as nfa.
Just dont be made to be part of the lie.
Best wishes
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Ginnie
member
Reged: 24/06/2008
Posts: 1064
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What a dreadful situation for you. I do believe as others have said that some intervention is necessary. You can not lie for K. She,and her children need help desperately. The time has come and perhaps this will end up being the best thing that could happen for them. Addiction is a dreadful problem and I always think there but for the grace of god.
Thinking of you Optimistic
Ginnie x
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Dormouse
member
Reged: 04/05/2009
Posts: 371
Loc: Scotland
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Hi there
Your friend has a problem and needs to admit this to herself before she can get help. Do not lie to Social Services. I have a friend who is a Social Worker and they can tell straight away when they are being lied to on someone's behalf.
I think it is terrible that your friend has put you into such an awful situation. I think you need to see if you can tell your friend that she needs help. I feel so sorry for the kids it must be awful seeing their mum like that.
Parents should be there to look after young children NOT the other way about.
Do not let your friend talk you into lying. You are not doing the poor lassie any favours by doing so.
Dormouse
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 8004
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Don't lie......
You have to think about the future for her family and also for your children. You don't know what goes on when you are not there, that family needs professional help.
Take care and good luck.
Foxie x.
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I've learnt that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Maya Angelou.
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suejane
member
Reged: 04/10/2008
Posts: 453
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Dont lie, please! My Ex is avery experienced Social Worker and he could tell a mile off if someone wasnt telling the truth, he was pretty good at it himself, but he would certainly keep records of what was said. You never know if you are going to need Social Services yourself one day.Think of the children please!It wont look good for your friend either. Perhaps she is in denial about her problem?If you stand back and do nothing how will you feel if something really bad happens to the children?
Just take care and i hope it all works out in a good way xxx
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BeauSoleil
member
Reged: 26/03/2008
Posts: 3891
Loc: France
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I think you are spot on saying you won't lie-well done you for being strong. Couldn't you turn it around though and be the one that goes to see her and perhaps gently advise that now the neighbour will be keeping an eye (if she hasn't already reported it) she should perhaps be the one that makes the move to seek help and that you will help her in any way you can as long as it's to do the right thing. Let her know you will offer whateve support you can in so much as you can look after the children when she goes to counselling, AA or other appointments or that you would be happy to go with her. I would also perhaps go over and see her and find out how she is and gently explain that you want theere to be no bad feeling in spite of the fact that she hasked you tell untruths. Make the first move-she might be feeling awful too and perhaps doesn't have your strength!!
Good luck
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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One problem with an adict is that they become takers not givers. If you offer support and it's taken up you're the one who's going to suffer as she'll drain your energy and you'll be the one feeling responsible if you can't be there everytime she calls (OH got dragged into that with his ex colleague and he's the sort of person who could normally just turn his back). No matter how much you want to help it won't do any good unless she wants to be helped and it sounds as though she doesn't want to admit there's a problem.
I know it's difficult to turn your back but believe me if you get involved it will be you who ends up feeling bad because you can't stop her drinking. If you offer to look after the children chances are she'll do exactly what OH's ex colleague did and say she was going to a meeting but instead is off somewhere getting plastered. There is no softly softly approach to this problem and it's no point her going to AA unless she really wants to sort herself out.
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suejane
member
Reged: 04/10/2008
Posts: 453
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I also had a friend who was a drinker and he was certainly in denial, he was an alcoholic and i tried to help him but actually he didnt really want help he didnt see the problem, his mothere who he lived with was the same. They died in the end. I think unless your friend admits the problem then it will be very difficult but i still think you should report on the children, they are at risk and i think it can be done anonymously, they must be suffering.I agree my friend was a taker but he didnt have children thankgoodness and i was warned to keep my children away from him, he could be violent when drunk.Im sure you will do the right thing but it isnt easy and i really believe you should notify someone about the children, not all alcoholics are violent but my friend did spend most of his benefits on drink and looked to me to help him out. Best wishes xx
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Optimistic
member
Reged: 14/12/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: SW
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Thank you so much for your messages which have given me great food-for-thought; including the message that say, knowing what I know, that I should report her.
It’s strange, when you are close to a situation, sometimes it isn’t until you run it past others that you see the enormity of it. I feel I must say though, that K is a very loving mum as she carries great guilt about her addiction so her children gets oodles of attention and affection. She also lets them stay up late and have loads of things – not that this is good (far from it) but she says her way of repaying them. An addict’s logic, I guess.
However, since that day she hasn’t drank since. She’s told her family that it’s all over and she’s hasn’t been feeling great since she’s gone cold turkey. She’s called AA and has a mentor coming over next week. I’m really rooting for her but I know that this isn’t over. It’s a long journey that may fail. Hubby, it appears, isn’t supportive. He wants her to give up yet he’s still drinking at home (in moderation) and still goes out for his hour jog every evening during the ‘witching’ hour (after tea, before kids bedtime chaos) when she’s always needed a drink to cope with this on her own, despite her plees.
Here’s where I stand at the moment. My thoughts have changed - I hope that T does report her. I will, of course, tell social services all I know because they do need help. I feel disloyal yet I feel it’s the right thing to happen. As for reporting her myself, I really don’t know about that. Not sure I could look her in the eye ever again but I’ll see what happens in the near future.
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dizeeblonde
member
Reged: 19/01/2008
Posts: 4684
Loc: Theatre of Dreams
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If it were me in this situation, I wouldn't have to even think about it, I would have reported this person long before now. Furthermore it would not have been anonymously, and I would have however painfully had the courage of my convictions to tell her that I had done so. We are dealing with young children here, and they should come first.
She need help as she is ill, in just the same way as someone addicted to class A drugs, and the children need protecting.
Sorry to be so blunt but all this pussyfooting around just results in children getting harmed.
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JulieJ
member
Reged: 29/12/2008
Posts: 555
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Would one way forward be for you to get in touch not with the social workers or anything official and part of the government, but with a child-welfare charity such as the NSPCC or the Children's Society - or even, perhaps, something like Alcoholics Anonymous.
If you say your main concern is for the child - which of course it has to be - then that is your reason for contacting them. Once you have done that, then in a way you have handed over respnsibility to them, and it's up to them if they take it further with the authorities.
The best way to be a friend to this woman is to help her kick her addiction - not cover it up.
There is also an orgniasation called Children of Addicted Parents which may help (and help the poor child too). It's on
http://www.coap.co.uk/taxonomy/term/103
Whatever happens, this situation CANNOT be allowed to continue.
All the best, Julie.
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Scarlets
member
Reged: 01/04/2007
Posts: 1889
Loc: Just across the pond
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You are right not to lie for her. She is obviously in need of help. She could be putting those children in a great deal of harm.
I think she is very lucky to have gone on for so long living near somebody who works for social services.
I really feel very sorry for her, but she does need help and I think asking you to lie for her is not an option.
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suejane
member
Reged: 04/10/2008
Posts: 453
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I hope it all works out.We have a Social Worker and most of them are very good and try hard in difficult situation, but they will always put any children first. This is their duty and in the light of Baby P etc no doubt they are trying even harder.We have friend nearby who is a Doctor to the elderley but has also had alcohol problems. She did manage to get help but alcohol is such an acceptable drug yet does so much harm.I beg your friend to keep going with any help she is offered and to be able to keep her children, Social Workers are even more careful now and must be . Best wishes x
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