chilla
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Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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Indeed it has been Bedouin land and it has also been inhabited by Jews for a long long time. The Gaza strip area was the busyest trading port for the Jews back in the fourth century. They have been thrown off it by the romans, egyptians and arious arab factions. Likewise, the Palestinians can claim equal rights to it given that they have had settlements there for centruries. I honestly do not think there is an answer as to whose it is, because as soon as one person pops up and can say it belongs to X because they were there in xBC, someone will counter with an earlier date for the other side. Basically it's been inhabited by both for a long time.
It adjoins the coast and is bordered by Egypt and Israel.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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PLASMO
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Reged: 13/03/2008
Posts: 12969
Loc: FLOUNCELAND
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Cupcake,
You have hit the nail right on the head.
Plasmo x
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JustJules
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Reged: 10/03/2008
Posts: 324
Loc: Lancashire
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Alledgedly Cupcake but we don't know for certain.
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chilla
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Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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there is a lot of evidence to show that rockets are being fired from civilian sites. You don't have to work in the defence industry to know that with the satellite capabilities that are available, it is very easy to identify the sites from which rockets are launched. My Palestinian travelling friend despairs at the way certain elements can be casual about life. She has made a lot of palestinian friends and describes them as warm and generous people, but as usual it doesn't take much for a few to polarise opinion.
Who were the first people to use suicide bombers? If not the Palestinians, they have certainly been at the forefront of their use. The idea that suicide bombers are idealists purely and simply is usually wrong insofar as they are very heavily groomed by others. I couldn't take someone and groom him/her to be a suicide bomber no matter what the cause.
i think i'm getting a headache
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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OzzieKez
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Reged: 21/06/2008
Posts: 2759
Loc: Queensland, Australia
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A UN school to which palestinians had fled was bombed today. It was alleged that amongst the dead (women and children) there were known members of Hamas......It was also alleged that shells had been fired from the school. UN sources have said that they are unaware of any evidence to support these claims.
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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in any war, Ozzie, everyone is a terrorist. Freedom and fighter have always seemed to be a paradox. But I get what you mean. It depresses the life out of me to think this is going to be continuing for decades to come.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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OzzieKez
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Reged: 21/06/2008
Posts: 2759
Loc: Queensland, Australia
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I agree Chilla, there is no solution. It is just so sad.
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cupcake
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Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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Did 'Israel' exist in any way before 1947....anywhere, or was it a new creation?
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Snowy1066
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Reged: 08/07/2008
Posts: 4181
Loc: Southeast
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I don't profess to understand this problem at all, and I thank all the ladies who have posted on this, with some knowledge of the situation, be you pro Israel or Pro Palestine. I am very impressed and just wish I knew more. Like Cupcake I will have to read over this thread a few times before it all sinks in.
I did just want to say I saw the Israeli Prime Minister being interviewed on Sky News this morning, and felt he sincerely wanted the conflict to stop. He said how could he sit back a let Hamas keep shelling Israel and do nothing about it? He also said that Hamas were hiding shells and amunition in schools and kindergartens around the Gaza strip, and using women and children as human shields.
I am not taking sides here, just saying what I heard, until I understand it all better I will sit on the fence.
But a very interesting thread all the same.
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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Quote:
Did 'Israel' exist in any way before 1947....anywhere, or was it a new creation?
Yes and no, depending on how you define Israel. That's another reason why it is incredibly complicated and you end up going back thousands of years and borders changing, conflicts that mean lands have changed hands. So I'm ducking out of this one now.
Cuppy, you owe me a paracetomol 
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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Can you just tell me who Hezbollah are....
then you can go and lay down.... 
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chilla
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Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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i'm going to fall out with you soon Cuppy
Hezbollah , which the Party of God,are a Lebanese based terrorist (or freedom fighters) organisation that have definitely been backed by Iran, who have provided them with personnel and military equipment. They are Shi'ite Muslims. hamas are Sunnis. They came to prominence in the mid eighties when Israel was controlling part of Lebanon - remember Beirut? Hezbollah are after a theocratic state - I think they are more fundamentalist than Hamas.
I've change my requirements from paracetomol to Vodka. And what's worse is that Diz, will appear, throw her usual informed opinion into the mix and then I'll get embroiled and I need a rest.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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Hmm.
what is a theocratic state?
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BEL
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Reged: 21/02/2008
Posts: 2480
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Basically..goverment by God.
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6185
Loc: runcorn
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A state/country which governs according to the tenets of faith. think iran.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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Oh goodness.. Ok...I see now.
Well, Thanks to you all, specially you Chilla...sorry about the headache though!
It's been really informative and very interesting.
cuppy.x
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JustJules
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Reged: 10/03/2008
Posts: 324
Loc: Lancashire
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Well I've learnt a lot from this girls (Dizee and Chilla, I'm so impressed with your knowledge and the way you expressed your views and the facts so brilliantly, I envy you being able to do so as I can't always put things across as well as I would like), so thanks and thanks that we can discuss this tragic situation like sensible adults though some of us have differing opinions but that's what true democracy is about. Chilla, have a well earned rest now!
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PLASMO
member
Reged: 13/03/2008
Posts: 12969
Loc: FLOUNCELAND
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Hi Ladies,
I have to agree with you Jules, what an interesting topic, to debate in a diplomatic, but positive way, all with different opinions, I for one really enjoy these more serious issues.
Thankyou Ladies.
Plasmo x
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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I've been thinking..
Regarding the West being involved in the 'relocation' of the Jews after liberating them from the POW camps. Presumably the West were involved because they were also involved in the war? The West could hardly just say oh well off you all go then and find somewhere to settle.
Ozzie, I think it was, said that the land they now occupy wasn't thought to be properly managed and that is why they were settled there.
Presumably everyone would agree that after the Holocaust every assistance possible needed to be offered to the Jewish people in order to help them rebuild their lives?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but with out it again presumable everyone thought they were choosing the best possible option?
Correct me if I'm wrong!!!..No really, I know you will, but please do!
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dizeeblonde
member
Reged: 19/01/2008
Posts: 4677
Loc: Theatre of Dreams
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ladies have just logged on again, what a fantastic thread, thanks Cuppy, I can honestly say I believe this to be the best topic/ debate I have ever seen on the forum, and I am amazed as this is probably potentially the most inflamatory topic I think that could ever be posted on here. Everyone has been reasoned and logical in making their posts.
I will add, that sadly I do not believe I will see the solution in my lifetime, and probably neither will my children, because even if Isreal/Palestine agree to accept a 2 state solution in principal,I can't forsee a time when there will ever be an agreement over the Dome of the Rock at Temple Mount in Jerusalem. This I feel will always be the stumbling point, and as a lot of places in this area are important to Christians as well, let's just hope they never get involved as well.
If you have a look at this link it shows how intertwined the sacred sites are to both sides.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/middle_east/2000/holy_places/default.stm
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