Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
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Cupcake - wasn't meant to be provocative at all - just throwing a curved ball.
Clearing up rubbish courtesy of the local authority costs council tax payers money - whether it be on a sink estate or at a beauty spot.
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Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3119
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MollyMandy,
Quote:
But don't you get these same sort of "no go" areas and filthy unkept properties, streets, etc. on some of the worst sink estates? These nasty people are also benefitting from all your hardworking, law abiding, people's taxes too.
The trouble is we don't need anymore of this kind of filth anywhere. As Cupcake has indicated, we should be
concerned about these areas too!
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bunnygirl
member
Reged: 30/08/2008
Posts: 720
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I would like to know how the same people who moved into an illegal site near us who are claiming legal aid to prevent eviction, claiming their rights to stay as they are on benefits and cannot afford to move are the same people who go into the local BMW dealership and buy top of the range BMW's for cash and have also been reported as buying a house for £350,000 cash.
Myself and OH have worked hard all our lives and paid plenty in tax and NI over the years (especially OH) and we could not do this. The one time we needed help from the government when OH was made redundant without warning we were given £40.00 a week to live on with a mortgage and 2 small children. Thankfully the situation resolved itself quite quickly.
My point is that I do not begrudge anyone government financial help when they have paid their dues like everyone else or through no fault of their own, but I do not like the way travellers want everything their own way claiming their human rights. The camp Bluebella talks about does not even have a postman as they are too frighten to deliver and even the police deem it a no go area. There have also been shooting incidents there and life is hell for the poor residents who back onto this illegal site- what about their human rights?
Sorry- I don't usually post on contraversial subjects on here and I do not wish to tar all the travellers with the same brush, but as usual it is a proportion of this part of society that put themselves outside the law but want all the benefits of society, that give others a bad name.
Bunnygirl
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Glitterqueen
member
Reged: 11/01/2008
Posts: 3199
Loc: Essex
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Quote:
There were a family of travellers (or gypsies) on the roadside near here before Christmas (for about a month): when they left (without being moved forcibly), there was not a speck of rubbish left anywhere.
Rather different to our local site which houses over 1000 people illegally.
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oliveoil
member
Reged: 31/10/2008
Posts: 1116
Loc: sw france
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bunny to be honest i would be very upset,i think glitterqueen was very lucky,any sites i have driven past have always looked a mess rubbish,dogs running all over the place and not under control,not to metion if you wanted to sell or rent your house i think it would be very hard.
i could go on and on but i wont,as i would never stop.
bunny i wish you well and hope the new year is good to you
love olive oil
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dizeeblonde
member
Reged: 19/01/2008
Posts: 4677
Loc: Theatre of Dreams
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A very difficult issue I think, and not easy to know what the answer is. I am another who has to think very carefully as I am also mindful Hitler persecuted this section of society.
We too have problems with groups of travellers in our area from time to time, and yes there is rising crime at these times, and it makes me irate. However I do try to remember making sweeping generalisations is very dangerous.
reading this I recalled that as a child I used to be taken to a large childrens Christmas party each year at our local conservative club by my parents, and used to play happily with another little girl that I looked forward to seeing each year. As I got older I was told that she was from a travelling family, her father operated a funfair, and had some of the rides. This man was very respected, kind and generous. So what I am trying to say is not all of this group of people are tax dodging anti- social oafs.
There is a problem as to where they site themselves, and perhaps this is the answer. for those who don't feel it is, what do you suggest?
To suggest that people are not free to opt for this lifestyle does not sit well with me, that would border on facism. One of the things I value about my country is my right to choose my lifestyle.
The big question really is the funding, but surely this is only the same as providing funds for council houses to be built?
I can se an advantadge in these sites being set up if they are properly regulated, it could help to cut down on benefit fraud tax evasion etc, as maybe there would be records registers etc.
I think we also need to remember there is a massive amount of tax evasion that is done by very affluent business men as well, and that is no less a crime, just not always as obvious.
I agree MollyMandy that there is the same issue of a dirty filthy sink estate, as in a place of beauty. For the decent law abiding people who have no choice but to live in these areas it must be very disheartening.
Again i would say, does anyone have any alternative ideas as to how to solve this problem?
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Glitterqueen
member
Reged: 11/01/2008
Posts: 3199
Loc: Essex
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Quote:
bunny to be honest i would be very upset,i think glitterqueen was very lucky,
I think you mean Mollymandy was lucky.
Bunnygirl and I live near the same site so I know what she is talking about.
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Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
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An interesting article about a friend of mine who opened my eyes.
http://www.south-norfolk.gov.uk/housing/3446.asp
http://www.blog.travellerstimes.org.uk/2008/11/25/a-rare-honour/
Edited by Mollymandy (06/01/2009 14:41)
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skippy
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 2105
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No you cant tar everyone with the same brush but having worked for a local authority designing these facilities for travellers - only to find that when the first lot decided to leave they took every bit of plumbing, sanitary appliances and anything else they could rip out away with them it makes you wonder why we bother.
Also a group of travellers turned up near where i live - parked their luxury caravans in the middle of a well used local football ground, strung their washing between the goalposts, put up Gazebo's and luxury garden furniture, drove about in their brand new Mercs and BMW's and Left a mess and stopped the field being used for 3 weeks.
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[ima ge][/image]
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ChrissiFi
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Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 2621
Loc: Somerset
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There's a big difference between travellers and genuine gypsies - romany gypsies are I believe a race, travellers have usually made a lifestyle choice to drop out of the normal conventions of civilised living and I don't see why when they've chosen not to earn a living we have to fund their accomodation.
The gypsies we get parked up around here occasionally are usually very clean, polite and tidy and pick up seasonal work wherever they park and when they move on you wouldn't know they'd been there (and probably wouldn't want to live on a glorified camp site although some near here have bought themselves a site and it's kept very neat and tidy) but a lot of the 'new age travellers' (Glastonbury's a few miles away and always attracts quite a number in summer) are a completely different matter - from speaking to farming friends who've had them pitch on their land the mess left behind is terrible and they have no respect for the land or livestock.
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oliveoil
member
Reged: 31/10/2008
Posts: 1116
Loc: sw france
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sorry glitterqueen,misread the post,wish you well,
love oliveoil
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6188
Loc: runcorn
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As with any group of people, wether it's religious, ethnic, lifestyle choice,work title, colour, whatever, there's good and bad.
It depends a lot on your first encounter and then if that first encounter is reinforced a second and third time, you end up holding very polarised views.
I'm willing to change my view, when I get a personal experience that conflicts with my current one.
Mollymandy, your friend seems very nice. If she has any success, perhaps she could campaign for a few truckstops as well as there are appalling facilities for my 'travelling' drivers. 
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
Edited by chilla (06/01/2009 15:02)
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Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
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Know what you mean Chilla - maybe a good business to set up a chain of decent overnight stops (similar to France)... same for travelling stable lads - the accommodation at racecourses is dire...
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6188
Loc: runcorn
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Erm ,no-one wants a truckstop next to them. Unsuprisingly!!! Do you go horse-racing Mollymandy, just wondered since you mentioned racecourses.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
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Love horseracing and worked for a big racing yard in Newmarket a few years ago. The lads there were well paid and well looked after, but not all yards were the same. Racecourse accommodation (even in Newmarket) is awful.
Think there is a good overnighter on the old A11 at Red Lodge - great for 24 hour brekkies!
Oops digressing.... 
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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Dizee, my point about not being able to compare a sink estate with a beauty spot is NOT that it's ok for one to be grotty and not the other but that JUST BECAUSE one is grotty doesn't mean to say it's okay for the other to be trashed.
Does that make sense to you? It does to me...but of course I know what I mean!
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Jane_09
member
Reged: 08/01/2008
Posts: 3119
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Hello ladies, I pop out and come back only to find the subject has turned to horseracing! How did that happen? 
MollyMandy, interesting website and of course there must be some successful, powerful, wonderful people who have come from the gypsy community.
Dizee, the government say that the decision to build 40,00 new sites will save money in the long run as it will cut the cost of £18 million spent annually on trying to evict travellers from illegal sites!! The gypsies will pay rent and council tax on the new legal sites, and in return the authorities will provide rubbish collection, running water, electricity and other services.
Yes, of course gypsies and travellers should be entitled to a roof over their heads just like any other member of society. As I said earlier my main concern is with the government’s new ‘land grab’ policy which means that some people may be forced to sell their land. I have absolutely no issues with the gypsies alternative lifestyle. Just as long as they are decent law abiding individuals and are willing to pay their own way in society, who cares what they do? If people want to opt out of society that's okay with me as long as they can pay for it.
As for where they should site themselves? - My suggestion is that they go and buy their own field and build their own facilities and amenities. If the gypsies want to opt out and live in their own community, I say let them do it, but I don't think we should be expected to pay for their alternative lifestyle. Why should we pay for them? Why should they get such privileged treatment? As somebody else said a lot of these people are quite well off and driving round in BMW’s!! I know people often assume that gypsies are poor, but this doesn’t appear to be the case. They have no mortgage to pay, so it could be that they have more money that most people!! And yes, they should clean up after themselves, just like anybody else!!
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chilla
member
Reged: 05/09/2008
Posts: 6188
Loc: runcorn
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And they're off.
First from the line is Jane2009, with a determined gallop. Folowing closely is Cupcake, Glitterqueen and Bunnygirl, all trying to catch up and stake their claim. On the left of the field is Mollymandy and Dizzeeblonde leading a concerted attack on the first place. As they come to the final furlong, it's all neck and neck and a photo finish for first place.
Chilla's pulled up and headed off for the haynet and a polo mint.
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I have the talent of single-minded determination and foc....hey, look, dog!
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Mollymandy
member
Reged: 01/08/2008
Posts: 1511
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Chilla wins by a short head... and disappears into the sunset with the trainer in his big Merc. 
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cupcake
member
Reged: 15/02/2008
Posts: 6078
Loc: On top of the world!!
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cupcake yawns and goes back to cooking her spaghetti bolognese...
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