I've been wondering:

Do selfish parents have unselfish children, and unselfish parents have selfish children?

I ask because it seems to me that my brother and I were brought up by a mother who was not selfish, but she was 'self-obsessed' (mentally ill), and we both had to look after our parents endlessly, both in practical and psychological terms.

But my brother and sister in law (who also had 'needy' parents), have ended up with selfish children....

They're not horrible (they are both in their twenties now), but they do (specially one) seem to me to take it utterly for granted that their parents will always be there to bail them out, fuss over them, bank-roll them, intervene for them, etc etc etc. They've had it SO easy compared to my brother and me, but just don't seem to recognise that.

You might hope they would grow out of it, and indeed my nephew has (he's now flying independently, huge relief all round), but my niece (in her late twenties now) basically relies on her parents for 'everything' (especially money). She has no job, no qualifications (she couldn't 'cope' with college)(even though her parents faffed about getting her extra help and sorting out accommodation for her etc etc etc), and seems to be perfectly happy just living at home. Mentally she is a child (because she is bankrolled by her parents), though she wants the privileges of adulthood (go off shoppping, out on trips, travelling around the country etc etc).

I know you are all going to tell me - until and unless her parents put their foot down, this is not going to stop - but what I wanted to ask was that general question - is it because her parents are not 'needy' that SHE is??? She just doesn't seem to have a gram of that sense of responsibility towards her parents that my brother and I had (far too much, actually)(which is why he's tried to spare his own children!!!!)

I'm due to go and visit them soon, and I'm dreading it in a way as I am going to be SOOOO hard put not to slap the damn girl! Yes, she has depression, yes, she has some health issues, but she is an ADULT and not a CHILD....

oh, grrrrrrrr

The final 'joy' of the situation is that she went off to live with her boyfriend (divorced father in his forties....)(another story....!) (this is after she'd dropped out of college), but got 'depressed' (tried to get work, to be fair to her, but found it difficult), so came running back home again....WITH THE BOYFRIEND.

They are now BOTH living with my brother in his wife (in a small house....), and seem blissfully intent on living there for ever from what I can see....He is unemployed (helps around the house and outside etc) and has no place of his own to live (he is a hard worker, I know, and when he was employed he was highly responsible and diligent)(and, again, to be fair to him, he's been very keen on trying to get my neice into employment so she can finally grow up.)

They are nice people, BUT BUT BUT....they just don't seem to twig that it is NOT ON to go and dump yourself on your parents when you are in your late twenties, and not earn your own living!

My brother and sister in law are desperate to move them out, and for their daughter to get her life sorted (with a job for a start!), but are 'too nice' to tell them to go.....

I admit I'm working myself into a state about it, and as I say, they (neice and boyfriend) are NOT horrible people, and it may be they geninely think they are pulling their weight, but they both seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land so far as facing up to reality is concerned.

I suspect that another factor is that the boyfriend is so besotted with my neice (well, lovely young girl in her twenties, to his middle aged man....), that he was happy to move in with her parents if that is what she wanted.

The situation seems totally intractable. They should move out - but where to? They are both homeless and unemployed.

Any ideas anyone?

Julie.