belfastbelle
member
Reged: 09/09/2008
Posts: 23
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Long story short...my sis/BIL have defaulted on a secured loan against their house and it will be repossesed if it happens again. They missed the payment because they took a family holiday that they couldn't afford but "deserved". She asked me for money before she went but I wouldn't give her it as she has significant debts and I didn't believe a holiday to be the best use of any spare cash. She doesn't work but says she's looking - she considers herself above shopwork but is unqualified to do much else. I have loaned her money in the past (she didn't tell her husband) which she repaid (unbeknownst to me) with money from this secured loan. Question is this, ladies, would you loan her, say £2000, which would leave you financially tight but manageable if it meant that they would make next month's payment on the loan? She has designer bags/jewelry that she won't sell as she "wouldn't get the full value for them". Maybe not, but it would raise enough cash to keep the bailiffs off her doorstep.
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WendyS
member
Reged: 07/09/2008
Posts: 6
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Hi Belefastbelle, This is an akward one to be sure. I am a firm believer that family must come first and if you can help them then do but . . . your sister seems to be behaving in a very irresponsible manner and expecting you to bail her out is very unfair. Maybe you could offer to help her in other ways that don't involve actually giving her money. Maybe go with her to the Citizens Advice Bureaux to ask for help sorting out her debts and arranging affordable repayments with her creditors. I know it's not easy to say no to loved ones, especially if their house is at stake, but she should have thought about her home before she went on holiday. Don't leave yourself vulnerable to problems - you may think your situation is manageable now and give her the £2000 but anything could happen and in 3 months time you might need that money yourself.
All the very best with this - I really feel for you having to make this decision. X
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leljay27
member
Reged: 31/07/2008
Posts: 64
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I think you probably know what you should do- hard love in the long run will be better for your sister. If you give her more money, it will be more difficult to say no the next time
(Gosh that sounds really harsh, but I am thinking of you, before your sister)
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wispa
member
Reged: 16/01/2008
Posts: 2219
Loc: Suffolk,
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Years ago my ex and I lent his sister some money as she couldn't afford to pay her rent. She promised to pay it ack as soon as she could, but we told her to pay in instalments.
Then we discovered she had borrowed fron other family members. We're all still waiting.
BB - ask around discretely and see who else she has borrowed from
..wispa
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 4425
Loc: South London
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I would give her support to access help e.g. Citizens Advice to organise her debts, but I would not give her any money.
I would just ask you - do you go on holiday if you can't afford it? How many designer bags and how much designer jewellery do you have?
I just have a feeling this is the thin end of the wedge and you will end up out of pocket. If you truly feel you want to give her some money, think about how much you can afford to give and not have back and just give her that amount. Very difficult for you, but you have your family and future to think of.
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In your journey through life, take what works for you and let the rest go. Susan Jeffers
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duckegg
member
Reged: 26/02/2007
Posts: 1090
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Hi Belfastbelle
I wouldn't lend it to her either now - but I might have done when she asked the first time had she been prepared to make some effort to find at least some of the money herself. I don't begrudge anyone a holiday or nice clothes but when money is needed to keep a roof over your head, like it or not, these are the things you have to forgo. She is expecting you to put yourself out and use the savings you have accumulated to solve her problem and in my view she should also be prepared to do her bit.
If you bail her out now, how long will it be before she asks again. Hard though it seems, my view is that you stand firm on the no loan. Like Wendy and Foxie have suggested could you offer to go with her to the Citizens Advice Bureau where they're well used to helping people sort out their debts so that re-possession is avoided.
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whitleybay
member
Reged: 09/08/2008
Posts: 659
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I think you should support her in every way apart from give her the money! I,m sorry but what makes her think she should not work if she is in debt? Most of us who have been in that position didn,t take holidays , sold everything we could sell and maybe, just maybe, at that point do you ask family for money!
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OzzieKez
member
Reged: 21/06/2008
Posts: 2622
Loc: Queensland, Australia
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Not a chance. Business is business!
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belfastbelle
member
Reged: 09/09/2008
Posts: 23
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Thanks, all. It really helps to know that I'm not being a b***h by not giving her the money. Although I certainly feel like one.
We had a long conversation about six weeks ago, where I suggested debt counselling via Citizens Advice. I asked her, yesterday, what they'd told her and she said that she'd left a message and nobody called her back! She claims that she "didn't know" she'd missed the payment and "didn't know" that a secured loan against the house was...like, a loan that's actually secured against the house. Well, she "knew" but didn't know that meant they would repossess her home if she couldn't meet the payments.
Everywhere one looks, these days, banks are going bust, businesses are folding and people are losing jobs/homes. I'm staggered that two grown adults - with children- believed themselves to be somehow exempt from reality. And I know that it's not my fault or, indeed, my responsibility. And I know that lending her the money won't change how she behaves, as I loaned her money over a year ago and look where we are, now. I feel awful. But, honestly, thanks for all the support, ladies. That does help.
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Foxie
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 4425
Loc: South London
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Hi
Just to say your sister seems to be burying her head in the sand. Ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse. Perhaps she thinks by ignoring things, they will set go away. I know of someone who didn't open any brown envelopes for six months because they were worried about what they would find.
The term 'secured loan' does sound really safe doesn't it? Lots of people don't realise you can lose your home if you don't pay up. You have done everything you can to help, but you have your family to think of too.
Good luck - this is a really tough one. x.
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In your journey through life, take what works for you and let the rest go. Susan Jeffers
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issi
member
Reged: 30/09/2007
Posts: 3277
Loc: Surrey
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My father-in-law used to say that the problem with lending people money is that they don't pay it back because they think you don't need it. It is a good one to quote in conversation.
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GILL3SQ
member
Reged: 29/07/2008
Posts: 94
Loc: Staffordshire
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My father used to say "never lend more than you can afford to lose".
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Tinkerbelle
member
Reged: 16/08/2008
Posts: 164
Loc: Kent
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I agree with all comments the answer would be no dont do it. Janetc..
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Tinkerbelle
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belfastbelle
member
Reged: 09/09/2008
Posts: 23
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Thanks, all, for your input. Issie, your FIL makes an excellent point. As they say over here, "It's a cracker". As much as it goes against the grain, and regardless of the family implosion should they fail to make another payment, I'm not handing over the cash. As Foxie points out, I have no designer bags and my watch is a six-yr old Timex, which works just fine. And as WendyS says, who knows what will happen in a few months. I could lose my job and then who would be around to lend me £2000?
I'm feeling very strong, at the minute. Hope it lasts...
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rosettastone
member
Reged: 11/03/2008
Posts: 523
Loc: Kent/Surrey borders
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Hi
I have personal experience of this after my SIL became bankrupt in the USA. OH and I have often had requests for money, in spite of the fact she has received over £20,000 from her mother , my MIL. I am afraid that to give her money just will end up as opening yourself up for further requests. My advice is the same as everyone elses. Don't give her any money...you are not her personal banker.
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carpe diem - seize the day!
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Chelsea
member
Reged: 06/02/2008
Posts: 943
Loc: Essex
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Belfastbelle - We have been here on more than one occasion from mine and my H's side of the family and I agree with everyone here. Please don't give your sister money - she is clearly not willing to make any effort herself so why should you? Some people may think that sounds harsh but then again some people will think nothing of holding their hand out rather than get off their bottoms and help themselves. Issi's FiL has hit the nail on the head on this one and WendyS is totally right too - you don't know if you will need that money urgently yourselves and then who will be there for you?
Remember, this is their problem, why all of a sudden does it have to become yours? Again sorry to sound harsh but that's the reality. You have identified things your sister could do to get herself out of this situation but they are not as easy as being given the money - what if you didn't have it to give?
Good luck and stay strong. Think about how hard you have had to work to make that money and the sacrifices you have made to hang on to your house when times have been tough!
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Chelsea x
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Verite
member
Reged: 19/08/2008
Posts: 468
Loc: HONG KONG
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I agree with the others and don't lend her the money.
Can you not go with her into town and say that I will come with you to the CAB.
That way you could make the appointment and go with her.
May be she thinks that going into the offices is below her and you could just be on hand to encourage her and the OH to sit there. Maybe not with them but just as a friend to offer help.
Some people don't know how to ask for help and see Debt especially as a huge social stigma even though most of us in some way or other are in debt.
Hope it all work out for you and your sisters family.
V
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susieblue
member
Reged: 16/03/2008
Posts: 943
Loc: Devon
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Absolutely not. You are obviously a far nicer person than I, to even be contemplating it. You know what kind of person she is and it is obvious that she is never going to get herself straight financially until she has a short, sharp shock and has to look at the big wide world realistically. It will be for her own good in the end, honest
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ChrissiFi
member
Reged: 28/06/2006
Posts: 1450
Loc: Somerset
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Don't lend her your hard-earned money. Anyone who thinks a holiday is more important than paying off debts (especially debts that could mean the loss of their home) needs to wake up to the real world. Surely any of us would take even the most menial job and try to sell possessions for a fraction of their value rather than face the embarrassment of asking our family for money. The best thing is to suggest she meets with her loan company (and anyone else she owes money to) and makes arrangements for repayment at a rate she can afford.
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issi
member
Reged: 30/09/2007
Posts: 3277
Loc: Surrey
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I just want to put another perspective on this. It is hard to say no to family, no matter what they are like. I have loaned money to family, and never got it back. Firstly, they thought I did not need it because they perceived me to be much better off than them; and secondly, they let so much time pass that in the end they have written it off. Meanwhile as time passes I have found myself more often than not thinking that I could have done with that money. I helped because they were in dire straits but I honestly knew that I would have to write it off. I made a suggestion to one member of the family that perhaps they could pay off the debt by just putting £10 a month into an account for me. That was ignored. Would I loan money to family again? If I could afford it I would feel that I would have to, but I would make sure that I put in place a repayment method before handing anything over.
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